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  • When I first played Halo 4, Spartan Palmer never stood out to me, either as a beloved character or a hated character.  Over Spartan Ops, Initiation, and Escalation, I found that I liked some of her aspects and disliked others.  This is no different than what I find with almost every character.   So why do I see on forums like Halo Nation or Facebook comments people crying for 343i to kill her?

    Why do people view Sarah Palmer as such an awful character?

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    • Sarah Palmer is supposed to be a spiritual successor for Sgt. Johnson. A badass and flambuoyant supporting protagonist, however the character development was done incorrectly. All I perceive her as is an reckless and haughty marine that has a louder bark than bite. The only fighting she does is in cutscenes; and even then, she only killed a pair of Elites and shot Halsey, with several Promethean Knights tossed in the mix.

      Her personality was done wrong; being comparable to Johnson in Halo 3. In Halo: CE, Johnson was stoic and serious generic soldier with smug remarks every so often. The character has to be introduced and shaped to the liking of the players, not the other way around, with the players being forced to accept Palmer and all her sass.

      If anything, I much prefer Paul DeMarco over Sarah Palmer. His superior character development was noticeable in Spartan Ops, as he changed from a personality like Palmer to be more like Sgt. Johnson. 

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    • Honestly, i never knew either. She is a very good character. If you ask me, i think the hate stemmed from the fact that Bungie didn't make the character or the game. No one seems to have shot down my theory so far.

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    • Unnamed Field Marshall wrote:
      Sarah Palmer is supposed to be a spiritual successor for Sgt. Johnson. A badass and flambuoyant supporting protagonist, however the character development was done incorrectly. All I perceive her as is an reckless and haughty marine that has a louder bark than bite. The only fighting she does is in cutscenes; and even then, she only killed a pair of Elites and shot Halsey, with several Promethean Knights tossed in the mix.

      Her personality was done wrong; being comparable to Johnson in Halo 3. In Halo: CE, Johnson was stoic and serious generic soldier with smug remarks every so often. The character has to be introduced and shaped to the liking of the players, not the other way around, with the players being forced to accept Palmer and all her sass.

      If anything, I much prefer Paul DeMarco over Sarah Palmer. His superior character development was noticeable in Spartan Ops, as he changed from a personality like Palmer to be more like Sgt. Johnson. 

      For some reason, i get the feeling you like DeMArco better only because he died sacrificing himself for the greater good. With that being said, you did see Palmer's fighting in Escalation so far, correct? 

      Palmer fighting Scruggs

      Palmer fighting Scruggs in the courtyard

      She killed Scruggs( who killed a few Brutes, Spartans, and Elites) with relative ease. She showed to be more than a match for him.

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    • One, I can't shake the feeling that she thinks to highly of herself and she kind of talks down to others (especially towards marines and scientists). Also, I was more on Halsey's side when Palmer went to go and kill her. Though they were orders, we've seen Spartans go against the orders of their superiors. 

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    • DMR4LIFE wrote:
      One, I can't shake the feeling that she thinks to highly of herself and she kind of talks down to others (especially towards marines and scientists). Also, I was more on Halsey's side when Palmer went to go and kill her. Though they were orders, we've seen Spartans go against the orders of their superiors. 

      Only once have we seen a Spartan go against orders. I'm pretty sure. About the MArines and Scientists, all ODST's did that. Buck does that in Halo 3 ODST. Bungie were the ones who made their characters say that first. Not 343i.

      Eggheads was a Bungie nickname first. Not sure Why 343i is taking the blame for it. Also, no, because she is a Spartan is no excuse for why it is unacceptable when she says it. Cause i'm sure people were thinking that. lol

      From 2:00 to 2:15. 

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoT4DTLP2yk

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    • DEMARCO DIED!? I'm dropping out of this thread to prevent any more unintentional spoils

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    • Unnamed Field Marshall wrote:
      DEMARCO DIED!? I'm dropping out of this thread to prevent any more unintentional spoils

      Just read his article that was put together.lol

      http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Paul_DeMarco

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    • Kal825B wrote:
      DMR4LIFE wrote:
      One, I can't shake the feeling that she thinks to highly of herself and she kind of talks down to others (especially towards marines and scientists). Also, I was more on Halsey's side when Palmer went to go and kill her. Though they were orders, we've seen Spartans go against the orders of their superiors. 
      Only once have we seen a Spartan go against orders. I'm pretty sure. About the MArines and Scientists, all ODST's did that. Buck does that in Halo 3 ODST. Bungie were the ones who made their characters say that first. Not 343i.

      Eggheads was a Bungie nickname first. Not sure Why 343i is taking the blame for it. Also, no, because she is a Spartan is no excuse for why it is unacceptable when she says it. Cause i'm sure people were thinking that. lol

      From 2:00 to 2:15. 

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoT4DTLP2yk

      For me that doesn't matter, I don't like charcters who think TOO highly of themselves. Sure, Buck said some dumb things to but I feel like he cared more about his soldiers then Palmer does. However, an opinion is just that, an opinion. Mine is no better then yours my friend. 

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    • I hate her not only for how much of a bitch she is, but also how hypocritical she is. All. The. Time.

      Ignoring the whole "orders are orders" BS she said late in Spartan Ops; she hates scientists because of a belief that anyone with an education views themselves as being superior to others, yet Palmer is very quick to point out how superior she and the other Spartan IVs are to other military branches.

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    • Kal825B wrote:

      For some reason, i get the feeling you like DeMArco better only because he died sacrificing himself for the greater good. 

      On the contrary, I usually dislike protagonists that perish unless it was an absolute necessity. I don't think any More of DeMarco because he sacrificed himself.

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    • DMR4LIFE wrote:
      Kal825B wrote:
      DMR4LIFE wrote:
      One, I can't shake the feeling that she thinks to highly of herself and she kind of talks down to others (especially towards marines and scientists). Also, I was more on Halsey's side when Palmer went to go and kill her. Though they were orders, we've seen Spartans go against the orders of their superiors. 
      Only once have we seen a Spartan go against orders. I'm pretty sure. About the MArines and Scientists, all ODST's did that. Buck does that in Halo 3 ODST. Bungie were the ones who made their characters say that first. Not 343i.

      Eggheads was a Bungie nickname first. Not sure Why 343i is taking the blame for it. Also, no, because she is a Spartan is no excuse for why it is unacceptable when she says it. Cause i'm sure people were thinking that. lol

      From 2:00 to 2:15. 

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoT4DTLP2yk

      For me that doesn't matter, I don't like charcters who think TOO highly of themselves. Sure, Buck said some dumb things to but I feel like he cared more about his soldiers then Palmer does. However, an opinion is just that, an opinion. Mine is no better then yours my friend. 

      I want to spoil the end of Escalation for you, but that would ruin it. Just look at Palmers page to see why what you said about her not caring about her soldiers is false. The end of the Escalation section. 

      http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Sarah_Palmer#Escalation

      Warning... Spoilers.

      Palmer grieving her Spartans heroic deaths.

      Palmer grieving the loss of her Spartans

      Sarah grieving the loss of her Spartans and upset with Lasky for giving DeMarco and Fireteam Bailey the orders to stay behind and ensure everyone's survival.

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    • GodzillaMaster wrote:
      I hate her not only for how much of a bitch she is, but also how hypocritical she is. All. The. Time.

      Ignoring the whole "orders are orders" BS she said late in Spartan Ops; she hates scientists because of a belief that anyone with an education views themselves as being superior to others, yet Palmer is very quick to point out how superior she and the other Spartan IVs are to other military branches.

      Technically they are, except of course for the surviving Spartan 2's. If 3's were equiped with MJOLNIR, then the 3's would be superior, but SPI would make them slightly Inferior i'm sure. The armor makes the difference sometimes. 

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    • Kal825B wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      I hate her not only for how much of a bitch she is, but also how hypocritical she is. All. The. Time.

      Ignoring the whole "orders are orders" BS she said late in Spartan Ops; she hates scientists because of a belief that anyone with an education views themselves as being superior to others, yet Palmer is very quick to point out how superior she and the other Spartan IVs are to other military branches.

      Technically they are, except of course for the surviving Spartan 2's. If 3's were equiped with MJOLNIR, then the 3's would be superior, but SPI would make them slightly Inferior i'm sure. The armor makes the difference sometimes. 

      My point still stands on Palmer's hypocracy. She should not be hating people just because she thinks that they view themselves as superior when Palmer is doing the exact same thing herself.

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    • Palmer reminds me alot of carolina off RvB they both share very similar charateristics but if in any future halo games/books/comics we see masterchief leave the UNSC for whatever reason she will probs side with the UNSC first but then side with the chief probalbly because of all the deaths of the spartans so far

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    • Sarah Palmer is a good character.

      However, I feel like we should have been given the opportunity to get to know this character before the game - or watched her turn into a more important supporting character as the games went on. 

      Again, I really like Sarah's character now that I've gotten to know her through comics and Spartan Ops. But when Halo 4 first came out, she is introduced as the Commander of the Spartan 4's and instantly adopts an antagonistic stance towards the Master Chief and we don't understand why.

      So, in conclusion, I agree with Unnamed Field Marshal: it isn't that she is a bad character, she was presented in the wrong manner. Then again, maybe it was something done intentionally. Now that I think about it, perhaps it was an attempt by 343 to throw us into the Master Chief's boots a little bit - 4 years of lost time may not seem like alot, but it can certainly be jarring. Things aren't much different of course, but John is again faced with the reality that everyone he once knew is gone (The knowledge of Halsey and the other S II's kept from him). New miltary leaders and new Spartans. Things have changed - and it shows in how everyone treats John.

      But that's just a bit of speculation. Could be that 343 really did just dun goof.

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    • Well given she has changed since Halo 4, I am curious to see how 343i presents her in the next Halo game. 

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    • Oh, and another reason I have to hate her: she's both a glory hound and the new Leeroy Jenkins of Halo. As seen in these three comic pages where she abandons her team to be "killed" to complete their mission

      That, her tendancy to throw tantrums when things don't go her way and yelling when subordinates point out any problems they're having, abandoning her post and not telling her subordinates (Spartan Ops ep 5), I'm not in the military but I can tell that she is NOT military material.

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    • GodzillaMaster wrote:
      Oh, and another reason I have to hate her: she's both a glory hound and the new Leeroy Jenkins of Halo. As seen in these three comic pages where she abandons her team to be "killed" to complete their mission

      That, her tendancy to throw tantrums when things don't go her way and yelling when subordinates point out any problems they're having, abandoning her post and not telling her subordinates (Spartan Ops ep 5), I'm not in the military but I can tell that she is NOT military material.

      So, if Palmer wasn't a lonewolf before, she isn't allowed to act like one after she received her Augmentations(making her an even better warrior)? Even though most of her ODST career was like that? Besides, it was a training excercise and she learned from Jun. How is that bad if she learned? 

      She is human, a competitive human at that. People are allowed to freak out when things don't go their way when things are at stake.lol Believe it or not, it actually makes you more human if you do that. Besides, she only did it once when she missed her shot at Halsey. 

      Where in Episode 5 does she abandon her post? 

      Also, is she not Military material because you just dislike the fact that 343i made her or(fill in random answer here)???

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    • She disobeyed the orders of Lasky, her CO, to comply to the orders of an even greater power, Adm. Osman. 

      Wouln't that make her Military Material?

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    • I am indifferent to Sarah Palmer, because everything I know about her is based on her portrayal in the Halo 4 campaign, with a vague understanding of her story outside of Halo 4 thanks to this wiki.

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    • Kal825B wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:

      Oh, and another reason I have to hate her: she's both a glory hound and the new Leeroy Jenkins of Halo. As seen in these three comic pages where she abandons her team to be "killed" to complete their mission

      That, her tendancy to throw tantrums when things don't go her way and yelling when subordinates point out any problems they're having, abandoning her post and not telling her subordinates (Spartan Ops ep 5), I'm not in the military but I can tell that she is NOT military material.


      So, if Palmer wasn't a lonewolf before, she isn't allowed to act like one after she received her Augmentations(making her an even better warrior)? Even though most of her ODST career was like that? Besides, it was a training excercise and she learned from Jun. How is that bad if she learned?

      She is human, a competitive human at that. People are allowed to freak out when things don't go their way when things are at stake.lol Believe it or not, it actually makes you more human if you do that. Besides, she only did it once when she missed her shot at Halsey.

      Where in Episode 5 does she abandon her post?

      Also, is she not Military material because you just dislike the fact that 343i made her or(fill in random answer here)???


      The exercise she failed miserably at in the links were a TEAM exercise, with Jun and Musa (a III and a II respectively) singling her out for the failing. The fact that she practically stated she won the exercise was just like John when he started his training, except that he was a little kid and she's a professional soldier, being competitive like would have doomed herself and her entire squad if that was real, and that is certainly not helped seeing how easily Scruggs had his ass handed to him by a chubby marine. She was selected to be one of the next generation of Spartans, yet she acts nothing like one, and certainly not like how a lieutenant should.

      Also, look at her dialogue in game as well as cutscenes in Spartan Ops, that bad attitude is quite noticeable.

      And the parts where Miller keeps trying to contact Palmer without any success.

      “Crimson. I'm back online. Still can't get hold of Commander Palmer. She's got her comms turned off.”
      — Miller

      No, it has nothing to do with 343 making her, I actually liked her back in the campaign; I just hate her now because of that attitude of her's.

      ......

      Unnamed Field Marshall wrote:
      She disobeyed the orders of Lasky, her CO, to comply to the orders of an even greater power, Adm. Osman. 

      Wouln't that make her Military Material?


      There is more to being military material than just following orders. Most importantly, being a team player and a being a good leader. Not only did Palmer charge ahead of her team, she was firing a pistol randomly behind her, when she isn't even wearing a helmet. What's to say that she wouldn't accidentally shoot her team mates?

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    • GodzillaMaster wrote:
      Kal825B wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:

      Oh, and another reason I have to hate her: she's both a glory hound and the new Leeroy Jenkins of Halo. As seen in these three comic pages where she abandons her team to be "killed" to complete their mission

      That, her tendancy to throw tantrums when things don't go her way and yelling when subordinates point out any problems they're having, abandoning her post and not telling her subordinates (Spartan Ops ep 5), I'm not in the military but I can tell that she is NOT military material.


      So, if Palmer wasn't a lonewolf before, she isn't allowed to act like one after she received her Augmentations(making her an even better warrior)? Even though most of her ODST career was like that? Besides, it was a training excercise and she learned from Jun. How is that bad if she learned?

      She is human, a competitive human at that. People are allowed to freak out when things don't go their way when things are at stake.lol Believe it or not, it actually makes you more human if you do that. Besides, she only did it once when she missed her shot at Halsey.

      Where in Episode 5 does she abandon her post?

      Also, is she not Military material because you just dislike the fact that 343i made her or(fill in random answer here)???


      The exercise she failed miserably at in the links were a TEAM exercise, with Jun and Musa (a III and a II respectively) singling her out for the failing. The fact that she practically stated she won the exercise was just like John when he started his training, except that he was a little kid and she's a professional soldier, being competitive like would have doomed herself and her entire squad if that was real, and that is certainly not helped seeing how easily Scruggs had his ass handed to him by a chubby marine. She was selected to be one of the next generation of Spartans, yet she acts nothing like one, and certainly not like how a lieutenant should.

      Also, look at her dialogue in game as well as cutscenes in Spartan Ops, that bad attitude is quite noticeable.

      And the parts where Miller keeps trying to contact Palmer without any success.

      “Crimson. I'm back online. Still can't get hold of Commander Palmer. She's got her comms turned off.”
      — Miller

      No, it has nothing to do with 343 making her, I actually liked her back in the campaign; I just hate her now because of that attitude of her's.

      ......


      Unnamed Field Marshall wrote:
      She disobeyed the orders of Lasky, her CO, to comply to the orders of an even greater power, Adm. Osman. 

      Wouln't that make her Military Material?


      There is more to being military material than just following orders. Most importantly, being a team player and a being a good leader. Not only did Palmer charge ahead of her team, she was firing a pistol randomly behind her, when she isn't even wearing a helmet. What's to say that she wouldn't accidentally shoot her team mates?

      I'm aware of what comic it was from, i just asked why would she have to immediately have to start acting like a team player after her fighting skills were drastically increased from the augmentations. Even as an ODST, she never really rellied on a team, she learned quick from Jun if she is the commander of all Spartan 4's. Competitive is Childish? Competitive is the drive to win, the motivation to succeed. All Spartan 2's have that drive(they showed it even after augmenations), along with the 3's as well as 4's. If Sarah shifted her actions more towards helping Scruggs, then what would she have learned if she already knew what to do(rhetorical). Competitive doesn't lose battles, it wins them. Palmer acts like a regular human in Militia(not including augmentations and armor(obviously)). Not a robot. 

      Since when do you need to be nice to join the UNSC or the US army for that matter? I thought they welcomed people with bad attitudes. 

      Wasn't something important going on in the ship during episode 5? I haven't played that in forever...lol I mostly do War Games.

      So, i take it you didn't read Escalation yet? 

      http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Sarah_Palmer#Battle_of_Ealen_IV

      So far everyone likes how her personaility has developed in Escalation. Does that include you?

      Despite popular belief, she is a good leader. As for being a team player, it has evolved over the course of Halo canon publishings. Though your opinion is that she isn't Military material, my opinion is that she is. AS for the pistol thing, it seems you just had to find one more thing to try and squeeze one tiny little insignificant thing in to help back up your argument. I can give you a number of different reasons for why she would do that. Would you like me to state them? lol

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    • I haven't read the comics yet. All I know of her doing is shooting Lord Hood to get a clear shot at Scruggs holding him hostage. I'm not saying that being competitive is childish, it's a good thing as long as you don't get overly competitive, which Palmer shows herself as.

      I highly doubt any military would allow someone as abrasive as Palmer to just about everyone, especially towards other branches of the military, at least not for very long. That should have a tendency to piss off the higher ups, especially since Palmer hates people that are "superior to her".

      Lasky and Roland were interrogating Halsey on what she's been talking to Jul about, something that a squad of marines would be perfectly fine being used for guard duty, not a battalion commander that doesn't even contact her subordinates on where she's going when they need her the most.

      But no, a good leader would be a person like Johnson or Lasky. Lasky's a reasonable authority figure that isn't so quick to judge people and while Johnson may have a similar attitude and dialogue, but he's fighting alongside you. Palmer just sits up in the Infinity with remarks about how she loves pissing the Covenant off, and when she's actually shown to be fighting alongside the squad, she abandons them and possibly even shoots them.

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    • GodzillaMaster wrote:
      I haven't read the comics yet. All I know of her doing is shooting Lord Hood to get a clear shot at Scruggs holding him hostage. I'm not saying that being competitive is childish, it's a good thing as long as you don't get overly competitive, which Palmer shows herself as.

      I highly doubt any military would allow someone as abrasive as Palmer to just about everyone, especially towards other branches of the military, at least not for very long. That should have a tendency to piss off the higher ups, especially since Palmer hates people that are "superior to her".

      Lasky and Roland were interrogating Halsey on what she's been talking to Jul about, something that a squad of marines would be perfectly fine being used for guard duty, not a battalion commander that doesn't even contact her subordinates on where she's going when they need her the most.

      But no, a good leader would be a person like Johnson or Lasky. Lasky's a reasonable authority figure that isn't so quick to judge people and while Johnson may have a similar attitude and dialogue, but he's fighting alongside you. Palmer just sits up in the Infinity with remarks about how she loves pissing the Covenant off, and when she's actually shown to be fighting alongside the squad, she abandons them and possibly even shoots them.

      Okay, your opinion on Competitive changed rather quickly? Sure, if you'd like to think that, alright, but since i myself am a competitive person, i don't see it as a problem. 

      On the contrary, you need a tough attitude. Your second paragraph has no backing about disrespecting superiors. She is good friend with Captain Lasky which is why she acts friendly around him. So, the friend thing is out of the question, which only leaves hood or Osman, and She followed orders from them without question. Even Lasky(Escalation issue 3). No, she does't hate her superiors. And no, Chief isn't a higher rank.

      Don't question ONI's motives...lol Otherwise they find interesting and unique ways to kill you(Halo: Mortal Dictata) Top secret crap super genius Dr. Halsey mad Badassery scientist in questioning...lol

      So, your saying you'd like Palmer better if she fought alongside you in gameplay, or she'd be the female equivalent to Johnson? Thats all you required in Halo 4 in terms of Palmer, to be satisfied? Also, about the Spartans Ops references, you really need to read Escalation. The Spartan Ops references are old in comparison. They just don't keep up with-from what everyone else has told me-her current developed character in Escalation.

      As for the pistol thing:

      It looks cool in a comic

      She is actually a pro with the Pistols... Possible

      She knows how to use them and she looked back before firing her wepaon seeing as that was a comic panel a.k.a, a screenshot of the moment.

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    • >.>

      I'm done here. I gave my reasons as to why I don't like Palmer.

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    • touché, gentlemen

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    • My feelings on Sarah Palmer are that I'm in different towards her. I know she's cahnged quite a bit since Halo 4 but she still has yet to grow on me as a character. I'm just curious to see how she continues to develop.

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    • GodzillaMaster wrote:
      I hate her not only for how much of a bitch she is, but also how hypocritical she is. All. The. Time.

      Ignoring the whole "orders are orders" BS she said late in Spartan Ops; she hates scientists because of a belief that anyone with an education views themselves as being superior to others, yet Palmer is very quick to point out how superior she and the other Spartan IVs are to other military branches.

      Dude, she's a spartan. she's very superior to marines AND scientists.

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    • 108.219.236.168 wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      I hate her not only for how much of a bitch she is, but also how hypocritical she is. All. The. Time.

      Ignoring the whole "orders are orders" BS she said late in Spartan Ops; she hates scientists because of a belief that anyone with an education views themselves as being superior to others, yet Palmer is very quick to point out how superior she and the other Spartan IVs are to other military branches.

      Dude, she's a spartan. she's very superior to marines AND scientists.

      Except she was like that BEFORE becoming a Spartan. And being a Spartan doesn't mean anything since a real Spartan like Thorne, Chief, Carter, and so on, treat scientists and their non-augmented fellow soldiers with respect.

      Palmer, on the other hand, does not. Instead she's content with being disrespectful to the very doctors who saved her arm after she was shot with a needler and making rather demoralizing comments towards marines

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    • GodzillaMaster wrote:
      108.219.236.168 wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      I hate her not only for how much of a bitch she is, but also how hypocritical she is. All. The. Time.

      Ignoring the whole "orders are orders" BS she said late in Spartan Ops; she hates scientists because of a belief that anyone with an education views themselves as being superior to others, yet Palmer is very quick to point out how superior she and the other Spartan IVs are to other military branches.

      Dude, she's a spartan. she's very superior to marines AND scientists.
      Except she was like that BEFORE becoming a Spartan. And being a Spartan doesn't mean anything since a real Spartan like Thorne, Chief, Carter, and so on, treat scientists and their non-augmented fellow soldiers with respect.

      Palmer, on the other hand, does not. Instead she's content with being disrespectful to the very doctors who saved her arm after she was shot with a needler and making rather demoralizing comments towards marines

      She is just full of herself, she holds herself to a higher regard. Though most people do not like her because of this, I feel as if 343i didn't want to make every character likeable. 

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    • DMR4LIFE wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      108.219.236.168 wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      I hate her not only for how much of a bitch she is, but also how hypocritical she is. All. The. Time.

      Ignoring the whole "orders are orders" BS she said late in Spartan Ops; she hates scientists because of a belief that anyone with an education views themselves as being superior to others, yet Palmer is very quick to point out how superior she and the other Spartan IVs are to other military branches.

      Dude, she's a spartan. she's very superior to marines AND scientists.
      Except she was like that BEFORE becoming a Spartan. And being a Spartan doesn't mean anything since a real Spartan like Thorne, Chief, Carter, and so on, treat scientists and their non-augmented fellow soldiers with respect.

      Palmer, on the other hand, does not. Instead she's content with being disrespectful to the very doctors who saved her arm after she was shot with a needler and making rather demoralizing comments towards marines

      She is just full of herself, she holds herself to a higher regard. Though most people do not like her because of this, I feel as if 343i didn't want to make every character likeable. 

      I understand that 343i wouldn't want to make every character likable, there's nothing wrong with that. And I liked Palmer too until the whole "Orders are orders", shooting Halsey and then throwing a tantrum when Jul and Halsey escaped.

      The least that 343i can do is give her some character development into a likable person, if not somewhat sympathetic; instead of showing that she has practically gone unchanged from her days as an ODST lieutenant/lance corporal to the CO of all Spartan-IVs aboard the Infinity when there were S-IIs and S-IIIs that are more qualified than her.

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    • GodzillaMaster wrote:

      I understand that 343i wouldn't want to make every character likable, there's nothing wrong with that. And I liked Palmer too until the whole "Orders are orders", shooting Halsey and then throwing a tantrum when Jul and Halsey escaped.

      The least that 343i can do is give her some character development into a likable person, if not somewhat sympathetic; instead of showing that she has practically gone unchanged from her days as an ODST lieutenant/lance corporal to the CO of all Spartan-IVs aboard the Infinity when there were S-IIs and S-IIIs that are more qualified than her.

      In Escalation she has become far more likeable in my opinion.  Still retains her caustic and arrogant stance, but she's endearing herself to me with other qualities like loyalty and the ability to think on her feet.

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    • GreenReticule wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:

      I understand that 343i wouldn't want to make every character likable, there's nothing wrong with that. And I liked Palmer too until the whole "Orders are orders", shooting Halsey and then throwing a tantrum when Jul and Halsey escaped.

      The least that 343i can do is give her some character development into a likable person, if not somewhat sympathetic; instead of showing that she has practically gone unchanged from her days as an ODST lieutenant/lance corporal to the CO of all Spartan-IVs aboard the Infinity when there were S-IIs and S-IIIs that are more qualified than her.

      In Escalation she has become far more likeable in my opinion.  Still retains her caustic and arrogant stance, but she's endearing herself to me with other qualities like loyalty and the ability to think on her feet.

      That's a possibility (though I haven't read the comics tbh...) there's still the fact that she shoots Lord Hood. In his thigh. With a pistol that shoots high explosive ammunition. Before killing the only guy that they could have used for information on who gave the Covenant Remnant information on the delegates and their peace meeting. The fact that Lord Hood didn't bleed out or die from shock is a miracle itself, because Osman or Parangosky would probably take over and ditch the subtle approach to killing off their Sangheili allies.

      With the rate that Palmer is going with her arrogance and rather idiotic approach to things, she will run out of luck very quickly and it will probably have disasterous results on the entire galaxy.

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    • DMR4LIFE wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      108.219.236.168 wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      I hate her not only for how much of a bitch she is, but also how hypocritical she is. All. The. Time.

      Ignoring the whole "orders are orders" BS she said late in Spartan Ops; she hates scientists because of a belief that anyone with an education views themselves as being superior to others, yet Palmer is very quick to point out how superior she and the other Spartan IVs are to other military branches.

      Dude, she's a spartan. she's very superior to marines AND scientists.
      Except she was like that BEFORE becoming a Spartan. And being a Spartan doesn't mean anything since a real Spartan like Thorne, Chief, Carter, and so on, treat scientists and their non-augmented fellow soldiers with respect.

      Palmer, on the other hand, does not. Instead she's content with being disrespectful to the very doctors who saved her arm after she was shot with a needler and making rather demoralizing comments towards marines

      She is just full of herself, she holds herself to a higher regard. Though most people do not like her because of this, I feel as if 343i didn't want to make every character likeable. 

      Yeah, just take Del Rio for example

        Loading editor
    • Del Rio outranked MC, and his main goal was to preserve everyone. He is likable in a conservative kind of way

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    • I just don't understand why friggin' ONI is shown as the center of everything. It's an intelligence, counter intelligence, and espionage agency. So is CIA, Mossad, etc. Difference is, if the director of the CIA tried to sabotage an EXTREMELY powerful foreign relation to deliberately cause a war in which the US barely survived the last one, and the only way they survived was because of an internal war and half the enemy allied with you, people would not be like " Oh whatevs."

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    • Also, the people who think either Palmer or Lasky are good leaders don't know what a real Officer is supposed to do. Leading from the front line like Palmer and Lasky do is the last place an officer is needed. Their place is either at a Main base, i.e. The Infinity, or at a forward frontline base, directing companies and battalions on their jobs and examining the flow of intel, and barking out orders, rather than shooting covenant and compromising oneself on the frontline like both Palmer and Lasky did on numerous occasions. From these locations, an officer is virtually either ineffective, fighting for their lives, or dead, and if there is nobody to tell 2nd Battalion, 3rd company that there is an AA gun en route to the drop off point, they might as well be marked off as KIA.

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    • Kal825B wrote:
      DMR4LIFE wrote:
      One, I can't shake the feeling that she thinks to highly of herself and she kind of talks down to others (especially towards marines and scientists). Also, I was more on Halsey's side when Palmer went to go and kill her. Though they were orders, we've seen Spartans go against the orders of their superiors. 
      Only once have we seen a Spartan go against orders. I'm pretty sure. About the MArines and Scientists, all ODST's did that. Buck does that in Halo 3 ODST. Bungie were the ones who made their characters say that first. Not 343i.

      Eggheads was a Bungie nickname first. Not sure Why 343i is taking the blame for it. Also, no, because she is a Spartan is no excuse for why it is unacceptable when she says it. Cause i'm sure people were thinking that. lol

      From 2:00 to 2:15. 

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoT4DTLP2yk

      I think that 343industries just overuses it, it's heard in almost every episode the doctors or scientists appear in.

        Loading editor
    • For me it was her first introduction in to the Halo Universe. Her first scene, Halo 4 – campaign Infinity – she kind of tries to make a joke by insulting Master Chief – “I thought you'd be taller”. When I first heard that I thought who does this b*tch think she is? For me, first she has to earn a player's respect to make a comment like that. Sgt. Johnson earn our respect and admiration before he made comments like that towards Master Chief. To compound that, she acts like her sh*t don's smell... I mean C'mom Man!

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    • GodzillaMaster wrote:
      That's a possibility (though I haven't read the comics tbh...) there's still the fact that she shoots Lord Hood. In his thigh. With a pistol that shoots high explosive ammunition. Before killing the only guy that they could have used for information on who gave the Covenant Remnant information on the delegates and their peace meeting. The fact that Lord Hood didn't bleed out or die from shock is a miracle itself, because Osman or Parangosky would probably take over and ditch the subtle approach to killing off their Sangheili allies.

      With the rate that Palmer is going with her arrogance and rather idiotic approach to things, she will run out of luck very quickly and it will probably have disasterous results on the entire galaxy.

      I know its been over a month since i've visited this site, but i feel like i should address this.

      Some of the safest places to shoot someone. If there is any. Is the outer thigh, the foot, and the hands. The main femoral artery is on the inside of the leg. Palmer shoots Hood on the outside of the thigh. Its mostly muscle and tissue on the outside of the leg. It isn't a miracle since it can be explained. 

      She saved Hood in doing such a thing. She didn't cause more harm.

      "Idiotic" is entirely subjective. I don't see it as that. I'll never understand why you have put so much hate towards her.

        Loading editor
    • Kal825B wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      That's a possibility (though I haven't read the comics tbh...) there's still the fact that she shoots Lord Hood. In his thigh. With a pistol that shoots high explosive ammunition. Before killing the only guy that they could have used for information on who gave the Covenant Remnant information on the delegates and their peace meeting. The fact that Lord Hood didn't bleed out or die from shock is a miracle itself, because Osman or Parangosky would probably take over and ditch the subtle approach to killing off their Sangheili allies.
      With the rate that Palmer is going with her arrogance and rather idiotic approach to things, she will run out of luck very quickly and it will probably have disasterous results on the entire galaxy.
      I know its been over a month since i've visited this site, but i feel like i should address this.

      Some of the safest places to shoot someone. If there is any. Is the outer thigh, the foot, and the hands. The main femoral artery is on the inside of the leg. Palmer shoots Hood on the outside of the thigh. Its mostly muscle and tissue on the outside of the leg. It isn't a miracle since it can be explained. 

      She saved Hood in doing such a thing. She didn't cause more harm.

      "Idiotic" is entirely subjective. I don't see it as that. I'll never understand why you have put so much hate towards her.

      Okay, even if it wouldn't cause Hood to bleed out, that was still a high explosive round. There was still the chance he'd go into shock from suddenly losing a huge chunk of his leg.


      And there are many reasons to dislike Palmer, for both her actions and personality, which include but are not limited to:

      • Contempt for anyone with an education
      • Demoralizing non-Spartan soldiers in the middle of a firefight
      • Abandoning her post, while she's still on duty, not only not even bothering to let her subordinates know that she'll be busy, but also refusing to even allow them to message her regardless of how urgent those messages are
      • Ignoring direct orders from superior officer, the more recent one involving her ignoring his order to stand down in favor of following a super illegal order from someone who doesn't even have any authority (she's in a separate branch) over her or the ship's captain, whose orders take precedence above all else (I am trying to find the link that says that).
        • And the fact that she ignored the perfectly valid orders of Del Rio (asshole or not, he was ordering was the decommissioning of an AI, regardless of being a hero, was dangerously rampant) because she would have had to fight the Chief to get to Cortana (a fight she would not likely win, or even survive). But an illegal order, from someone outside her branch that with no authority over the Infinity, that calls for the assassination of an unarmed elderly woman? Palmer did not hesitate for a second to carry it out; not only is Palmer a hypocrite ("Orders are orders"), she's also a coward as well.
      • Disabling communications with the Infinity while on an extremely important mission (one that requires extreme caution), cutting herself and Majestic off of the ship's long range communications and weapons as well as adding the unnecessary risk of being stranded should the Infinity be forced to retreat, all because she found Miller to be annoying (As shown here)
      • I really cannot stress this enough: she abandoned her team, rushing forward while ignoring their calls for her to slow down, and leaving them to be killed. Simulation or not, the fact that she basically stated she didn't care about that because "we still won" (not literally, but there's just the way she said "Mission complete" that heavily implies that from her personality and voice) just shows that she does not hesitate to ditch the people she is supposed to be fighting alongside as a team. If she couldn't cooperate with a team for a simple training exercise, how would it make her be viewed as their leader?
      • Massive hypocrite, as Palmer hates those who are better than her (doctors, scientists, Spartans) yet she doesn't hesitate to brag about how much better Spartans are to normal marines. And that whole "orders are orders" thing above.
        Loading editor
    • GodzillaMaster wrote:
      • Ignoring direct orders from superior officer, the more recent one involving her ignoring his order to stand down in favor of following a super illegal order from someone who doesn't even have any authority (she's in a separate branch) over her or the ship's captain, whose orders take precedence above all else (I am trying to find the link that says that).

      Found the link. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:b-fEpFzmBSQJ:https://twitter.com/BrianReed/status/433449350736252928+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

        Loading editor
    • GodzillaMaster wrote:
      Kal825B wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      That's a possibility (though I haven't read the comics tbh...) there's still the fact that she shoots Lord Hood. In his thigh. With a pistol that shoots high explosive ammunition. Before killing the only guy that they could have used for information on who gave the Covenant Remnant information on the delegates and their peace meeting. The fact that Lord Hood didn't bleed out or die from shock is a miracle itself, because Osman or Parangosky would probably take over and ditch the subtle approach to killing off their Sangheili allies.
      With the rate that Palmer is going with her arrogance and rather idiotic approach to things, she will run out of luck very quickly and it will probably have disasterous results on the entire galaxy.
      I know its been over a month since i've visited this site, but i feel like i should address this.

      Some of the safest places to shoot someone. If there is any. Is the outer thigh, the foot, and the hands. The main femoral artery is on the inside of the leg. Palmer shoots Hood on the outside of the thigh. Its mostly muscle and tissue on the outside of the leg. It isn't a miracle since it can be explained. 

      She saved Hood in doing such a thing. She didn't cause more harm.

      "Idiotic" is entirely subjective. I don't see it as that. I'll never understand why you have put so much hate towards her.

      Okay, even if it wouldn't cause Hood to bleed out, that was still a high explosive round. There was still the chance he'd go into shock from suddenly losing a huge chunk of his leg.


      And there are many reasons to dislike Palmer, for both her actions and personality, which include but are not limited to:

      • Contempt for anyone with an education
      • Demoralizing non-Spartan soldiers in the middle of a firefight
      • Abandoning her post, while she's still on duty, not only not even bothering to let her subordinates know that she'll be busy, but also refusing to even allow them to message her regardless of how urgent those messages are
      • Ignoring direct orders from superior officer, the more recent one involving her ignoring his order to stand down in favor of following a super illegal order from someone who doesn't even have any authority (she's in a separate branch) over her or the ship's captain, whose orders take precedence above all else (I am trying to find the link that says that).
        • And the fact that she ignored the perfectly valid orders of Del Rio (asshole or not, he was ordering was the decommissioning of an AI, regardless of being a hero, was dangerously rampant) because she would have had to fight the Chief to get to Cortana (a fight she would not likely win, or even survive). But an illegal order, from someone outside her branch that with no authority over the Infinity, that calls for the assassination of an unarmed elderly woman? Palmer did not hesitate for a second to carry it out; not only is Palmer a hypocrite ("Orders are orders"), she's also a coward as well.
      • Disabling communications with the Infinity while on an extremely important mission (one that requires extreme caution), cutting herself and Majestic off of the ship's long range communications and weapons as well as adding the unnecessary risk of being stranded should the Infinity be forced to retreat, all because she found Miller to be annoying (As shown here)
      • I really cannot stress this enough: she abandoned her team, rushing forward while ignoring their calls for her to slow down, and leaving them to be killed. Simulation or not, the fact that she basically stated she didn't care about that because "we still won" (not literally, but there's just the way she said "Mission complete" that heavily implies that from her personality and voice) just shows that she does not hesitate to ditch the people she is supposed to be fighting alongside as a team. If she couldn't cooperate with a team for a simple training exercise, how would it make her be viewed as their leader?
      • Massive hypocrite, as Palmer hates those who are better than her (doctors, scientists, Spartans) yet she doesn't hesitate to brag about how much better Spartans are to normal marines. And that whole "orders are orders" thing above.

      That has a very, VERY slim chance of occuring if only muscle and tissue are damaged. In that situation, shock would occur most likely through lack of blood or dehydration. Through deductive reasoning, one can assume, only muscle and tissue got damaged.


      1) As i've said. That was a lesson learned. Unless your holding a grudge against a fictional character?

      2) Contempt for other people with an education =/= Military Jargon. UNSC has done this for centuries. Why stop now?

      3) Where is she seen "demoralizing" soldiers? 

      4) I don't even remember where that one was.

      5) Admiral Osman does in fact have authority over UNSC personal. Just because ONI is a branch of the UNSC doesn't mean that she doesn't have the authority to order other UNSC personnel. How is that illegal if she gave the order? Her orders override Lasky's. Besides. She originally gave the orders to Lasky. Not Palmer. Through deductive reasoning, one can assume that she has authority over Lasky as well as Infinity. Technically, Lasky would be at fault for disobeying orders if Palmer had not gone. 

      Seriously, theres a difference between stubborn hatred and taking a second to consider things.

      Lasky and Palmer get debriefed

      Debriefing

      5.2) Simple reasons for such a thing would be that both Lasky and Palmer knew who was right in that situation(Chief). Humanity was at Stake. That is Justified. It was dangerous to have Halsey stolen from the UNSC. The orders aren't illegal or bad ones considering the other Admirals/Generals, even Hood, aren't locking Osman away at the debriefing since they all knew about it as well. Lasky would have been in serious trouble had Palmer not stepped in for him.


       


      Palmer re-establishes connection

      Palmer re-establishes connection

      6) Have you read Halo: Uprising? All Chief asks I/O Station the entire time is for "Radio silence". He literally does that through out the entire comic. While on board the Forerunner Dreadnought.  I don't see where the problem is since MJOLNIR allows the user to establish a connection with a thought. It isn't even long before Palmer and Majestic establish connection again anyways. Besides that, 

      "Loosing communications"=/= Infinity sensors not detecting them

      7) I'm pretty sure i already explained this to you months ago. If she gained something from the experience. Like say, learn something valuable. Then no, it isn't a good reason to dislike her. Since she has acted like a "lonewolf" during her ODST career, yes, i do believe she learned something of value from that situation.

      8) For some reason i feel as though you thinking Palmer "hates" is coming from your hatred of her. 

      Again. Military Jargon =/= hating certian individuals

      No, i don't think she is a "massive hypocrite". You are aware of all ODST's hatred for Spartans, Right? Unlike your accusations towards Palmer. This has been directly established in Halo lore. I don't see how it is "not normal" for an ODST to think that. After what Chief did the Silva's men. Spartans are better than normal Humans. Its fact.

        Loading editor
    • Kal825B wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      Kal825B wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      That's a possibility (though I haven't read the comics tbh...) there's still the fact that she shoots Lord Hood. In his thigh. With a pistol that shoots high explosive ammunition. Before killing the only guy that they could have used for information on who gave the Covenant Remnant information on the delegates and their peace meeting. The fact that Lord Hood didn't bleed out or die from shock is a miracle itself, because Osman or Parangosky would probably take over and ditch the subtle approach to killing off their Sangheili allies.
      With the rate that Palmer is going with her arrogance and rather idiotic approach to things, she will run out of luck very quickly and it will probably have disasterous results on the entire galaxy.
      I know its been over a month since i've visited this site, but i feel like i should address this.

      Some of the safest places to shoot someone. If there is any. Is the outer thigh, the foot, and the hands. The main femoral artery is on the inside of the leg. Palmer shoots Hood on the outside of the thigh. Its mostly muscle and tissue on the outside of the leg. It isn't a miracle since it can be explained. 

      She saved Hood in doing such a thing. She didn't cause more harm.

      "Idiotic" is entirely subjective. I don't see it as that. I'll never understand why you have put so much hate towards her.

      Okay, even if it wouldn't cause Hood to bleed out, that was still a high explosive round. There was still the chance he'd go into shock from suddenly losing a huge chunk of his leg.


      And there are many reasons to dislike Palmer, for both her actions and personality, which include but are not limited to:

      • Contempt for anyone with an education
      • Demoralizing non-Spartan soldiers in the middle of a firefight
      • Abandoning her post, while she's still on duty, not only not even bothering to let her subordinates know that she'll be busy, but also refusing to even allow them to message her regardless of how urgent those messages are
      • Ignoring direct orders from superior officer, the more recent one involving her ignoring his order to stand down in favor of following a super illegal order from someone who doesn't even have any authority (she's in a separate branch) over her or the ship's captain, whose orders take precedence above all else (I am trying to find the link that says that).
        • And the fact that she ignored the perfectly valid orders of Del Rio (asshole or not, he was ordering was the decommissioning of an AI, regardless of being a hero, was dangerously rampant) because she would have had to fight the Chief to get to Cortana (a fight she would not likely win, or even survive). But an illegal order, from someone outside her branch that with no authority over the Infinity, that calls for the assassination of an unarmed elderly woman? Palmer did not hesitate for a second to carry it out; not only is Palmer a hypocrite ("Orders are orders"), she's also a coward as well.
      • Disabling communications with the Infinity while on an extremely important mission (one that requires extreme caution), cutting herself and Majestic off of the ship's long range communications and weapons as well as adding the unnecessary risk of being stranded should the Infinity be forced to retreat, all because she found Miller to be annoying (As shown here)
      • I really cannot stress this enough: she abandoned her team, rushing forward while ignoring their calls for her to slow down, and leaving them to be killed. Simulation or not, the fact that she basically stated she didn't care about that because "we still won" (not literally, but there's just the way she said "Mission complete" that heavily implies that from her personality and voice) just shows that she does not hesitate to ditch the people she is supposed to be fighting alongside as a team. If she couldn't cooperate with a team for a simple training exercise, how would it make her be viewed as their leader?
      • Massive hypocrite, as Palmer hates those who are better than her (doctors, scientists, Spartans) yet she doesn't hesitate to brag about how much better Spartans are to normal marines. And that whole "orders are orders" thing above.
      That has a very, VERY slim chance of occuring if only muscle and tissue are damaged. In that situation, shock would occur most likely through lack of blood or dehydration. Through deductive reasoning, one can assume, only muscle and tissue got damaged.


      1) As i've said. That was a lesson learned. Unless your holding a grudge against a fictional character?

      2) Contempt for other people with an education =/= Military Jargon. UNSC has done this for centuries. Why stop now?

      3) Where is she seen "demoralizing" soldiers? 

      4) I don't even remember where that one was.

      5) Admiral Osman does in fact have authority over UNSC personal. Just because ONI is a branch of the UNSC doesn't mean that she doesn't have the authority to order other UNSC personnel. How is that illegal if she gave the order? Her orders override Lasky's. Besides. She originally gave the orders to Lasky. Not Palmer. Through deductive reasoning, one can assume that she has authority over Lasky as well as Infinity. Technically, Lasky would be at fault for disobeying orders if Palmer had not gone. 

      Seriously, theres a difference between stubborn hatred and taking a second to consider things.

      Lasky and Palmer get debriefed

      Debriefing

      5.2) Simple reasons for such a thing would be that both Lasky and Palmer knew who was right in that situation(Chief). Humanity was at Stake. That is Justified. It was dangerous to have Halsey stolen from the UNSC. The orders aren't illegal or bad ones considering the other Admirals/Generals, even Hood, aren't locking Osman away at the debriefing since they all knew about it as well. Lasky would have been in serious trouble had Palmer not stepped in for him.




      Palmer re-establishes connection

      Palmer re-establishes connection

      6) Have you read Halo: Uprising? All Chief asks I/O Station the entire time is for "Radio silence". He literally does that through out the entire comic. While on board the Forerunner Dreadnought.  I don't see where the problem is since MJOLNIR allows the user to establish a connection with a thought. It isn't even long before Palmer and Majestic establish connection again anyways. Besides that, 

      "Loosing communications"=/= Infinity sensors not detecting them

      7) I'm pretty sure i already explained this to you months ago. If she gained something from the experience. Like say, learn something valuable. Then no, it isn't a good reason to dislike her. Since she has acted like a "lonewolf" during her ODST career, yes, i do believe she learned something of value from that situation.

      8) For some reason i feel as though you thinking Palmer "hates" is coming from your hatred of her. 

      Again. Military Jargon =/= hating certian individuals

      No, i don't think she is a "massive hypocrite". You are aware of all ODST's hatred for Spartans, Right? Unlike your accusations towards Palmer. This has been directly established in Halo lore. I don't see how it is "not normal" for an ODST to think that. After what Chief did the Silva's men. Spartans are better than normal Humans. Its fact.

      1. She still holds that arrogance

      2. No, that's not military jargon, that's her. She shows absolutely no respect for doctors, even towards the ones that saved her arm (and possibly her life) from a Needler round (Because it "took them longer to get out of school")

      3. Spartan-Ops episode Invasion/Homefield:

      Commander Palmer said:
      “-watch your flank, Marine! I know you’re not a Spartan! Spartans shoot straight!”

      That is the exact opposite of what previous Spartans would do to marines. In Crow's Nest, you see marines practically shouting "Look a Spartan! We're going to be alright!" With Palmer, all she does is yell at and insult them.

      4.All of episode 5 Spartan-Ops episode Memento Mori/Spartan Miller

      Miller said:
      "Crimson, it's Miller... the Commander isn't in the Ops Center, and she's not answering her personal comm. "

      Spartan-Ops episode Memento Mori/Nothing Can Go Wrong

      Miller said:
      "Crimson. I'm back online. Still can't get hold of Commander Palmer. She's got her comms turned off."

      Spartan-Ops episode Memento Mori/Spartan Thorn

      Miller said:
      "Keep looking. And try to get Commander Palmer on the line. She needs to know what's happening."

      5. Osman does not have authority over Lasky, she's "Intelligence" and he's Fleet, that'd be like if an admiral was to give orders to an army colonel who is stationed in a completely different system. And I said here, Lasky's orders take precedence over Osman's because he's in command of the Infinity, Palmer had no right to ignore Lasky's orders to stand down and she sure as hell did not have the right to say "Orders are orders" because Osman had no authority over her.

      Osman should also have no power to court martial Lasky either, if Palmer were to say something along the lines of "I have to do this. Osman's the head of ONI, you don't obey her she'll find ways to make your life miserable if not kill you" I wouldn't be complaining. Or even better would be wording the order as "Capturing Halsey is your highest priority at the moment, she's too valuable an asset to lose. But you are authorized to eliminate her if she cannot be taken alive to keep her out of Jul's hands". And as I said, even though Del Rio is an asshole, Cortana was dangerously rampant at that point and he was ordering her to be decommissioned to prevent people from getting killed.

      And Lord Hood would have locked Osman away for even making such an order before the K-5 trilogy happened and he became a Halsey hater like the rest. In First Strike he held Halsey with the highest respect and practically demanded Ackerson to shut up for badmouthing her and the S-II program.

      6. Yes, I did read it. And unlike the Chief, Palmer and Majestic needed the Infinity in case they needed to bug out. It doesn't matter if Palmer reestablished connection a few minutes later, a few minutes is basically all that's needed sometimes, as a massive fleet could have jumped in and forced the Infinity to retreat, leaving the S-IVs stranded. Something that would be avoidable if the Infinity was able to contact them.

      And my mistake, I meant to say "long range sensors" not "communications", which the Spartans would have needed to ensure they weren't going to fly straight into a trap. Finally, the other difference between Chief on the dreadnought and Palmer there was that Chief asked for radio silence, Palmer on the other hand rudely cut contact simply because she thought Miller was annoying

      7. Not true, since she went to infiltrate Jul Mdama's lair, which was heavily guarded by Promethean knights and Sangheili warriors, with no backup, no equipment, and no weapons besides a pair of pistols. If she actually learned anything from her training days as a Spartan, she would have brought a Spartan or two, in addition to some equipment and heavier firepower.

      8. And yes, she is a hypocrite. Because in addition to hating doctors and scientists for "viewing themselves as being smarter" than her, she also hated Spartans for making her feel inadequate. Now that she became a Spartan herself, she's been making marines and ODSTs feel inadequate by saying how much better Spartans are compared to them. For someone who hates people that are better than her, she is very quick to brag how she's better than others.

        Loading editor
    • This debate is like watching fireworks.

      ~Such wow, much colors.

        Loading editor
    • GodzillaMaster wrote:
      Kal825B wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      Kal825B wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      That's a possibility (though I haven't read the comics tbh...) there's still the fact that she shoots Lord Hood. In his thigh. With a pistol that shoots high explosive ammunition. Before killing the only guy that they could have used for information on who gave the Covenant Remnant information on the delegates and their peace meeting. The fact that Lord Hood didn't bleed out or die from shock is a miracle itself, because Osman or Parangosky would probably take over and ditch the subtle approach to killing off their Sangheili allies.
      With the rate that Palmer is going with her arrogance and rather idiotic approach to things, she will run out of luck very quickly and it will probably have disasterous results on the entire galaxy.
      I know its been over a month since i've visited this site, but i feel like i should address this.

      Some of the safest places to shoot someone. If there is any. Is the outer thigh, the foot, and the hands. The main femoral artery is on the inside of the leg. Palmer shoots Hood on the outside of the thigh. Its mostly muscle and tissue on the outside of the leg. It isn't a miracle since it can be explained. 

      She saved Hood in doing such a thing. She didn't cause more harm.

      "Idiotic" is entirely subjective. I don't see it as that. I'll never understand why you have put so much hate towards her.

      Okay, even if it wouldn't cause Hood to bleed out, that was still a high explosive round. There was still the chance he'd go into shock from suddenly losing a huge chunk of his leg.


      And there are many reasons to dislike Palmer, for both her actions and personality, which include but are not limited to:

      • Contempt for anyone with an education
      • Demoralizing non-Spartan soldiers in the middle of a firefight
      • Abandoning her post, while she's still on duty, not only not even bothering to let her subordinates know that she'll be busy, but also refusing to even allow them to message her regardless of how urgent those messages are
      • Ignoring direct orders from superior officer, the more recent one involving her ignoring his order to stand down in favor of following a super illegal order from someone who doesn't even have any authority (she's in a separate branch) over her or the ship's captain, whose orders take precedence above all else (I am trying to find the link that says that).
        • And the fact that she ignored the perfectly valid orders of Del Rio (asshole or not, he was ordering was the decommissioning of an AI, regardless of being a hero, was dangerously rampant) because she would have had to fight the Chief to get to Cortana (a fight she would not likely win, or even survive). But an illegal order, from someone outside her branch that with no authority over the Infinity, that calls for the assassination of an unarmed elderly woman? Palmer did not hesitate for a second to carry it out; not only is Palmer a hypocrite ("Orders are orders"), she's also a coward as well.
      • Disabling communications with the Infinity while on an extremely important mission (one that requires extreme caution), cutting herself and Majestic off of the ship's long range communications and weapons as well as adding the unnecessary risk of being stranded should the Infinity be forced to retreat, all because she found Miller to be annoying (As shown here)
      • I really cannot stress this enough: she abandoned her team, rushing forward while ignoring their calls for her to slow down, and leaving them to be killed. Simulation or not, the fact that she basically stated she didn't care about that because "we still won" (not literally, but there's just the way she said "Mission complete" that heavily implies that from her personality and voice) just shows that she does not hesitate to ditch the people she is supposed to be fighting alongside as a team. If she couldn't cooperate with a team for a simple training exercise, how would it make her be viewed as their leader?
      • Massive hypocrite, as Palmer hates those who are better than her (doctors, scientists, Spartans) yet she doesn't hesitate to brag about how much better Spartans are to normal marines. And that whole "orders are orders" thing above.
      That has a very, VERY slim chance of occuring if only muscle and tissue are damaged. In that situation, shock would occur most likely through lack of blood or dehydration. Through deductive reasoning, one can assume, only muscle and tissue got damaged.


      1) As i've said. That was a lesson learned. Unless your holding a grudge against a fictional character?

      2) Contempt for other people with an education =/= Military Jargon. UNSC has done this for centuries. Why stop now?

      3) Where is she seen "demoralizing" soldiers? 

      4) I don't even remember where that one was.

      5) Admiral Osman does in fact have authority over UNSC personal. Just because ONI is a branch of the UNSC doesn't mean that she doesn't have the authority to order other UNSC personnel. How is that illegal if she gave the order? Her orders override Lasky's. Besides. She originally gave the orders to Lasky. Not Palmer. Through deductive reasoning, one can assume that she has authority over Lasky as well as Infinity. Technically, Lasky would be at fault for disobeying orders if Palmer had not gone. 

      Seriously, theres a difference between stubborn hatred and taking a second to consider things.

      Lasky and Palmer get debriefed

      Debriefing

      5.2) Simple reasons for such a thing would be that both Lasky and Palmer knew who was right in that situation(Chief). Humanity was at Stake. That is Justified. It was dangerous to have Halsey stolen from the UNSC. The orders aren't illegal or bad ones considering the other Admirals/Generals, even Hood, aren't locking Osman away at the debriefing since they all knew about it as well. Lasky would have been in serious trouble had Palmer not stepped in for him.




      Palmer re-establishes connection

      Palmer re-establishes connection

      6) Have you read Halo: Uprising? All Chief asks I/O Station the entire time is for "Radio silence". He literally does that through out the entire comic. While on board the Forerunner Dreadnought.  I don't see where the problem is since MJOLNIR allows the user to establish a connection with a thought. It isn't even long before Palmer and Majestic establish connection again anyways. Besides that, 

      "Loosing communications"=/= Infinity sensors not detecting them

      7) I'm pretty sure i already explained this to you months ago. If she gained something from the experience. Like say, learn something valuable. Then no, it isn't a good reason to dislike her. Since she has acted like a "lonewolf" during her ODST career, yes, i do believe she learned something of value from that situation.

      8) For some reason i feel as though you thinking Palmer "hates" is coming from your hatred of her. 

      Again. Military Jargon =/= hating certian individuals

      No, i don't think she is a "massive hypocrite". You are aware of all ODST's hatred for Spartans, Right? Unlike your accusations towards Palmer. This has been directly established in Halo lore. I don't see how it is "not normal" for an ODST to think that. After what Chief did the Silva's men. Spartans are better than normal Humans. Its fact.

      1. She still holds that arrogance

      2. No, that's not military jargon, that's her. She shows absolutely no respect for doctors, even towards the ones that saved her arm (and possibly her life) from a Needler round (Because it "took them longer to get out of school")

      3. Spartan-Ops episode Invasion/Homefield:


      Commander Palmer said:
      “-watch your flank, Marine! I know you’re not a Spartan! Spartans shoot straight!”
      That is the exact opposite of what previous Spartans would do to marines. In Crow's Nest, you see marines practically shouting "Look a Spartan! We're going to be alright!" With Palmer, all she does is yell at and insult them.

      4.All of episode 5 Spartan-Ops episode Memento Mori/Spartan Miller


      Miller said:
      "Crimson, it's Miller... the Commander isn't in the Ops Center, and she's not answering her personal comm. "

      Spartan-Ops episode Memento Mori/Nothing Can Go Wrong


      Miller said:
      "Crimson. I'm back online. Still can't get hold of Commander Palmer. She's got her comms turned off."

      Spartan-Ops episode Memento Mori/Spartan Thorn


      Miller said:
      "Keep looking. And try to get Commander Palmer on the line. She needs to know what's happening."

      5. Osman does not have authority over Lasky, she's "Intelligence" and he's Fleet, that'd be like if an admiral was to give orders to an army colonel who is stationed in a completely different system. And I said here, Lasky's orders take precedence over Osman's because he's in command of the Infinity, Palmer had no right to ignore Lasky's orders to stand down and she sure as hell did not have the right to say "Orders are orders" because Osman had no authority over her.

      Osman should also have no power to court martial Lasky either, if Palmer were to say something along the lines of "I have to do this. Osman's the head of ONI, you don't obey her she'll find ways to make your life miserable if not kill you" I wouldn't be complaining. Or even better would be wording the order as "Capturing Halsey is your highest priority at the moment, she's too valuable an asset to lose. But you are authorized to eliminate her if she cannot be taken alive to keep her out of Jul's hands". And as I said, even though Del Rio is an asshole, Cortana was dangerously rampant at that point and he was ordering her to be decommissioned to prevent people from getting killed.

      And Lord Hood would have locked Osman away for even making such an order before the K-5 trilogy happened and he became a Halsey hater like the rest. In First Strike he held Halsey with the highest respect and practically demanded Ackerson to shut up for badmouthing her and the S-II program.

      6. Yes, I did read it. And unlike the Chief, Palmer and Majestic needed the Infinity in case they needed to bug out. It doesn't matter if Palmer reestablished connection a few minutes later, a few minutes is basically all that's needed sometimes, as a massive fleet could have jumped in and forced the Infinity to retreat, leaving the S-IVs stranded. Something that would be avoidable if the Infinity was able to contact them.

      And my mistake, I meant to say "long range sensors" not "communications", which the Spartans would have needed to ensure they weren't going to fly straight into a trap. Finally, the other difference between Chief on the dreadnought and Palmer there was that Chief asked for radio silence, Palmer on the other hand rudely cut contact simply because she thought Miller was annoying

      7. Not true, since she went to infiltrate Jul Mdama's lair, which was heavily guarded by Promethean knights and Sangheili warriors, with no backup, no equipment, and no weapons besides a pair of pistols. If she actually learned anything from her training days as a Spartan, she would have brought a Spartan or two, in addition to some equipment and heavier firepower.

      8. And yes, she is a hypocrite. Because in addition to hating doctors and scientists for "viewing themselves as being smarter" than her, she also hated Spartans for making her feel inadequate. Now that she became a Spartan herself, she's been making marines and ODSTs feel inadequate by saying how much better Spartans are compared to them. For someone who hates people that are better than her, she is very quick to brag how she's better than others.


      1) I fail to see that in Escalation. I'll consider that a fallacy. For now. Unless you show me her arrogance in the comic(Escalation), that isn't subjective.

      2) Most of it is actually. I can't remember off the top of my head, but i vaguely remember other people calling the Doctors on the Infinity "egg heads" as well. I'm not even going to bother telling why that Military Jargon isn't considered Hatred since i already addressed that months ago. But i'm not without generosity of course. I will concede this point(2) of the "debate" since you have provided a legitemate source to prove your claim.

      3) Seriously? Welcome to the military. You never gave me a marine reply dialogue. 

      Palmer was obviously telling the Marine to shoot straight. Which underpressure, he probably needed the push. You took that as an insult. Unless the Marine replied, "you hurt my feelings". No, that wasn't meant to be an insult. It was meant to tell the marine to stay vigilant and correct his aim so they all don't die from a mistake. Which, considering the situation aboard the Infinity at the time. It was necessary dialogue to portray how bad the situation aboard the Infinity was at the time.

      All that does is support my claim about you holding a grudge...

      4) Now i remember. She was with Halsey the entire time. Must have been important. Which it was. Since Lasky was with Palmer the entire time. With that logic, shoudn't you hate Lasky just as much if they both were unable to be reached while on the Infinity at the time? Unless its bias.

      5) Why are you disregarding fact? Saying Osman doesn't have authority over UNSC personnel is like saying that an admiral of the U.S Navy doesn't have full control over his own fleet. The Logic in Reed's statement is horribly, horribly skewed. Osman has authority over Lasky and the Infinity(Lasky's resources) since they are both Navy, through(yet again more) deductive reasoning, one can assume that she controls all of "Lasky's resources" aswell. Considering Escalation is a Chris Schlerf story and his word made it into a legitemate Halo publishing. I'm going to believe Chris Schlerf over the former.

      She does have that power. Escalation proves that claim correct. If your trying to say that Del Rio was sort of Justified in his thinking, then yes, that is true. However, the remaining Population of earth takes priority over the crew of the Infinity. "The needs of the many out-weigh the needs of the few". Good motto to live by.

      He would have, but he didn't. Osman's orders weren't "illegal" since the other Generals/Admirals were with her on those orders. This technically invalidates Point 5 of this debate almost entirely.

      Also, as for better dialogue. Spartan ops episode 9. Time: 0:30 - 0:38

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts1GFHHBRpU

      Right before the Dialogue where you call her a hypocrite.

      "I won't see you Court-Martialed over that woman."-Palmer. 

      Feel alittle better now?

      6) Thats the thing though. She disabled Communications. She has no control over the Infinity's Sensors being able to detect them. Infinity always has eyes on them unless something were to truly disrupt a connection. 

      Chief wasn't too nice about it either from what i remember. He never asked. Just told them. His line never exceeded, "Radio Silence out". Sometimes in the middle of them talking. Technically that is considered rude. 

      7) She outright said, she didn't trust anyone else to do it right. So, she went on her own. I find that to be a vaild reason. Its not like she didn't have contact with Infinity. Its not like she doesn't use group tactics. She works with multiple different fireteams in Escalation. I'm starting to think you have something against lonewolves. How did you like the Chief Solo missions in Halo's 1 - 4? 

      8)  Actually no, she isn't a hypocrite for feeling what just about every other ODST felt towards Spartans. That was considered a growing resentment towards them. To put it nicely. Also, no, telling a Marine to shoot straight so they all don't die horrible deaths, isn't bragging about how much better she is, or how much better her Spartan's are. If anything its motivation in the middle of combat. 

        Loading editor
    • 100.1.72.251 wrote:
      1) I fail to see that in Escalation. I'll consider that a fallacy. For now. Unless you show me her arrogance in the comic(Escalation), that isn't subjective.

      2) Most of it is actually. I can't remember off the top of my head, but i vaguely remember other people calling the Doctors on the Infinity "egg heads" as well. I'm not even going to bother telling why that Military Jargon isn't considered Hatred since i already addressed that months ago. But i'm not without generosity of course. I will concede this point(2) of the "debate" since you have provided a legitemate source to prove your claim.

      3) Seriously? Welcome to the military. You never gave me a marine reply dialogue. 

      Palmer was obviously telling the Marine to shoot straight. Which underpressure, he probably needed the push. You took that as an insult. Unless the Marine replied, "you hurt my feelings". No, that wasn't meant to be an insult. It was meant to tell the marine to stay vigilant and correct his aim so they all don't die from a mistake. Which, considering the situation aboard the Infinity at the time. It was necessary dialogue to portray how bad the situation aboard the Infinity was at the time.

      All that does is support my claim about you holding a grudge...

      4) Now i remember. She was with Halsey the entire time. Must have been important. Which it was. Since Lasky was with Palmer the entire time. With that logic, shoudn't you hate Lasky just as much if they both were unable to be reached while on the Infinity at the time? Unless its bias.

      5) Why are you disregarding fact? Saying Osman doesn't have authority over UNSC personnel is like saying that an admiral of the U.S Navy doesn't have full control over his own fleet. The Logic in Reed's statement is horribly, horribly skewed. Osman has authority over Lasky and the Infinity(Lasky's resources) since they are both Navy, through(yet again more) deductive reasoning, one can assume that she controls all of "Lasky's resources" aswell. Considering Escalation is a Chris Schlerf story and his word made it into a legitemate Halo publishing. I'm going to believe Chris Schlerf over the former.

      She does have that power. Escalation proves that claim correct. If your trying to say that Del Rio was sort of Justified in his thinking, then yes, that is true. However, the remaining Population of earth takes priority over the crew of the Infinity. "The needs of the many out-weigh the needs of the few". Good motto to live by.

      He would have, but he didn't. Osman's orders weren't "illegal" since the other Generals/Admirals were with her on those orders. This technically invalidates Point 5 of this debate almost entirely.

      Also, as for better dialogue. Spartan ops episode 9. Time: 0:30 - 0:38

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts1GFHHBRpU

      Right before the Dialogue where you call her a hypocrite.

      "I won't see you Court-Martialed over that woman."-Palmer. 

      Feel alittle better now?

      6) Thats the thing though. She disabled Communications. She has no control over the Infinity's Sensors being able to detect them. Infinity always has eyes on them unless something were to truly disrupt a connection. 

      Chief wasn't too nice about it either from what i remember. He never asked. Just told them. His line never exceeded, "Radio Silence out". Sometimes in the middle of them talking. Technically that is considered rude. 

      7) She outright said, she didn't trust anyone else to do it right. So, she went on her own. I find that to be a vaild reason. Its not like she didn't have contact with Infinity. Its not like she doesn't use group tactics. She works with multiple different fireteams in Escalation. I'm starting to think you have something against lonewolves. How did you like the Chief Solo missions in Halo's 1 - 4? 

      8)  Actually no, she isn't a hypocrite for feeling what just about every other ODST felt towards Spartans. That was considered a growing resentment towards them. To put it nicely. Also, no, telling a Marine to shoot straight so they all don't die horrible deaths, isn't bragging about how much better she is, or how much better her Spartan's are. If anything its motivation in the middle of combat. 

      1. I don't own Escalation, all I can provide is what I find off the internet: Charging into a mass of Covenant despite having the high ground, lots of cover, and a team having them in a field of fire, all to test out her new sword.

      4. No, I don't, because you don't hear anyone saying about how they need Lasky but are unable to contact him. And did you not see what Palmer did? She was basically doing nothing but pace menacingly behind Halsey making threats, any marine could do that. All Palmer had to do was tell her subordinates "I'm going into a meeting and I do not want to be disturbed, if you have any new intel tell Roland. Otherwise you're in charge until I get back."

      5. You're missing my point. From what I remember in Halo lore, ONI, despite technically being navy, is treated as a seperate branch than fleet navy where Lasky is located. And that is just a poor comparison, because wouldn't an admiral be located in his fleet taking part of the action, not dozens of lightyears away.

      But I will drop this, because all our points are before vs after the personality shift.

      6. No, I was not trying to say that at all. Disabling the communications with the Infinity would prevent the Infinity from being able to warn them if they are flying into a trap that they just detected on their sensors or if the Infinity has to bug out.

      And there is still a difference: Chief is basically saying that he does not want them to contact him because of the risk of being detected while inside a heavily guarded ship that he does not know the layout to, Palmer basically goes "Oh no, I'm going into a tunnel! *Fakes static noises before hanging up*". And again, because she thought Miller as annoying.

      7. No, I don't have a problem with lone wolves. And again, all she had with her was two pistols and no equipment, she's essentially going in under-prepared.

      But since I have nothing else I can bring up about her not being a team player, I'm going to have to give this to you.

      8.

      Commander Palmer said:
      "Once again, Spartans do in 24 minutes what Marines can't do in 24 hours. Dalton, I need a decent-sized explosive launched from Infinity on Crimson's mark."

      That's bragging right there, it doesn't matter that it is true, that's still bragging that she's better.

        Loading editor
    • Does anyone remember the Ramirez meme from MW2? That's going to be replaced by Palmer and Crimson.

      • CRIMSON, defend that lab while I yell at eggheads
      • CRIMSON, kill those Promethean knights with your fists
      • CRIMSON, take out that wraith with this magnum
      • CRIMSON, DO EVERYTHING, while I take credit
        Loading editor
    • GodzillaMaster wrote:
      100.1.72.251 wrote:
      1) I fail to see that in Escalation. I'll consider that a fallacy. For now. Unless you show me her arrogance in the comic(Escalation), that isn't subjective.

      2) Most of it is actually. I can't remember off the top of my head, but i vaguely remember other people calling the Doctors on the Infinity "egg heads" as well. I'm not even going to bother telling why that Military Jargon isn't considered Hatred since i already addressed that months ago. But i'm not without generosity of course. I will concede this point(2) of the "debate" since you have provided a legitemate source to prove your claim.

      3) Seriously? Welcome to the military. You never gave me a marine reply dialogue. 

      Palmer was obviously telling the Marine to shoot straight. Which underpressure, he probably needed the push. You took that as an insult. Unless the Marine replied, "you hurt my feelings". No, that wasn't meant to be an insult. It was meant to tell the marine to stay vigilant and correct his aim so they all don't die from a mistake. Which, considering the situation aboard the Infinity at the time. It was necessary dialogue to portray how bad the situation aboard the Infinity was at the time.

      All that does is support my claim about you holding a grudge...

      4) Now i remember. She was with Halsey the entire time. Must have been important. Which it was. Since Lasky was with Palmer the entire time. With that logic, shoudn't you hate Lasky just as much if they both were unable to be reached while on the Infinity at the time? Unless its bias.

      5) Why are you disregarding fact? Saying Osman doesn't have authority over UNSC personnel is like saying that an admiral of the U.S Navy doesn't have full control over his own fleet. The Logic in Reed's statement is horribly, horribly skewed. Osman has authority over Lasky and the Infinity(Lasky's resources) since they are both Navy, through(yet again more) deductive reasoning, one can assume that she controls all of "Lasky's resources" aswell. Considering Escalation is a Chris Schlerf story and his word made it into a legitemate Halo publishing. I'm going to believe Chris Schlerf over the former.

      She does have that power. Escalation proves that claim correct. If your trying to say that Del Rio was sort of Justified in his thinking, then yes, that is true. However, the remaining Population of earth takes priority over the crew of the Infinity. "The needs of the many out-weigh the needs of the few". Good motto to live by.

      He would have, but he didn't. Osman's orders weren't "illegal" since the other Generals/Admirals were with her on those orders. This technically invalidates Point 5 of this debate almost entirely.

      Also, as for better dialogue. Spartan ops episode 9. Time: 0:30 - 0:38

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts1GFHHBRpU

      Right before the Dialogue where you call her a hypocrite.

      "I won't see you Court-Martialed over that woman."-Palmer. 

      Feel alittle better now?

      6) Thats the thing though. She disabled Communications. She has no control over the Infinity's Sensors being able to detect them. Infinity always has eyes on them unless something were to truly disrupt a connection. 

      Chief wasn't too nice about it either from what i remember. He never asked. Just told them. His line never exceeded, "Radio Silence out". Sometimes in the middle of them talking. Technically that is considered rude. 

      7) She outright said, she didn't trust anyone else to do it right. So, she went on her own. I find that to be a vaild reason. Its not like she didn't have contact with Infinity. Its not like she doesn't use group tactics. She works with multiple different fireteams in Escalation. I'm starting to think you have something against lonewolves. How did you like the Chief Solo missions in Halo's 1 - 4? 

      8)  Actually no, she isn't a hypocrite for feeling what just about every other ODST felt towards Spartans. That was considered a growing resentment towards them. To put it nicely. Also, no, telling a Marine to shoot straight so they all don't die horrible deaths, isn't bragging about how much better she is, or how much better her Spartan's are. If anything its motivation in the middle of combat. 

      1. I don't own Escalation, all I can provide is what I find off the internet: Charging into a mass of Covenant despite having the high ground, lots of cover, and a team having them in a field of fire, all to test out her new sword.

      4. No, I don't, because you don't hear anyone saying about how they need Lasky but are unable to contact him. And did you not see what Palmer did? She was basically doing nothing but pace menacingly behind Halsey making threats, any marine could do that. All Palmer had to do was tell her subordinates "I'm going into a meeting and I do not want to be disturbed, if you have any new intel tell Roland. Otherwise you're in charge until I get back."

      5. You're missing my point. From what I remember in Halo lore, ONI, despite technically being navy, is treated as a seperate branch than fleet navy where Lasky is located. And that is just a poor comparison, because wouldn't an admiral be located in his fleet taking part of the action, not dozens of lightyears away.

      But I will drop this, because all our points are before vs after the personality shift.

      6. No, I was not trying to say that at all. Disabling the communications with the Infinity would prevent the Infinity from being able to warn them if they are flying into a trap that they just detected on their sensors or if the Infinity has to bug out.

      And there is still a difference: Chief is basically saying that he does not want them to contact him because of the risk of being detected while inside a heavily guarded ship that he does not know the layout to, Palmer basically goes "Oh no, I'm going into a tunnel! *Fakes static noises before hanging up*". And again, because she thought Miller as annoying.

      7. No, I don't have a problem with lone wolves. And again, all she had with her was two pistols and no equipment, she's essentially going in under-prepared.

      But since I have nothing else I can bring up about her not being a team player, I'm going to have to give this to you.

      8.


      Commander Palmer said:
      "Once again, Spartans do in 24 minutes what Marines can't do in 24 hours. Dalton, I need a decent-sized explosive launched from Infinity on Crimson's mark."
      That's bragging right there, it doesn't matter that it is true, that's still bragging that she's better.

      1) Do you have an Iphone? You can get it off of the Dark Horse app. How is that display arrogance? I can't see how that is arrogant.

      4) Miller should have tried though. As i've said, Lasky is also at fault if he was unreachable as well. I blame Reed's story telling. 

      5) My evidence was from Spartan Ops and Escalation. Both Old and New support my claim. Palmer tells lasky the he will get Court-Martialed for dis-obeying orders from Osman. Which shows her authority, Escalation also backs this up. As for the analogy. An Admiral of a fleet can dispatch a ship to the other side of the Earth, and still have complete control over it.

      6) Weeellll, i can't blame her for finding him annoying... It seems you pry would have prefered her to say "Radio Silence". Does it really matter how its done? Unlike you, i actually found that hilarious.

      8) Where does she imply that she is better? She is talking about all of her Spartans(probably Crimson) because she is proud of their success. 

      Bragging about your Rank's soldiers success because you are proud of them=/=Bragging about herself

      There is a big difference between the 2.

        Loading editor
    • Me, I hated the way she treated and called Elites, her personallity so wasn't bad.

        Loading editor
    • Ultimate Ghost wrote: Me, I hated the way she treated and called Elites, her personallity so wasn't bad.

      Woe wait a minuet, the time I spent around elites is how I know so much about friendship honor and loyalty, and hear I hear some one is abusing them??? let me at them!!! i'll rip out their intestine and make them slip on them, i'll rip their arms and legs off and see if they can still swim, i'll..... uh, excuse me, before I continue may I ask if I'm allowed to be raided r about it?

        Loading editor
    • Lord of the STARS wrote:

      Woe wait a minuet, the time I spent around elites is how I know so much about friendship honor and loyalty, and hear I hear some one is abusing them??? let me at them!!! i'll rip out their intestine and make them slip on them, i'll rip their arms and legs off and see if they can still swim, i'll..... uh, excuse me, before I continue may I ask if I'm allowed to be raided r about it?

      Damn, STARS, don't get too blood thirsty.

        Loading editor
    • Commando Trooper wrote:

      Lord of the STARS wrote:

      Woe wait a minuet, the time I spent around elites is how I know so much about friendship honor and loyalty, and hear I hear some one is abusing them??? let me at them!!! i'll rip out their intestine and make them slip on them, i'll rip their arms and legs off and see if they can still swim, i'll..... uh, excuse me, before I continue may I ask if I'm allowed to be raided r about it?

      Damn, STARS, don't get too blood thirsty.

      ya, shutting up.

        Loading editor
    • i find her ok if only she'd get more character development and more action. i mean, in spartan assault it talked about how good she is but in halo 4 she did nothing. hopefully in halo 5 she gets the action and development she needs, but then there's a new guy coming in so i highly doubt it...

        Loading editor
    • EliteDra315 wrote:
      i find her ok if only she'd get more character development and more action. i mean, in spartan assault it talked about how good she is but in halo 4 she did nothing. hopefully in halo 5 she gets the action and development she needs, but then there's a new guy coming in so i highly doubt it...

      Halo Escalation wasn't enough?

        Loading editor
    • Halo Escalation was enough. Sarah Palmer has proved herself both capable and creative. 

        Loading editor
    • Kal, Son of Bero wrote:
      Halo Escalation was enough. Sarah Palmer has proved herself both capable and creative. 

      Thats exactly what i'm saying...

        Loading editor
    • yeah actually escalation is pretty fine, i just mean that most people hate her 'cause they either don't read it or ignore it. i don't actually hate the character, i just think that action in the games are always more awesome and i wished they'd made some more instead of the one from spartan ops

        Loading editor
    • I would assume its hard to view a character with a smart-alleck personality just to prove how superior that character has become. That's a character flaw and trying to do the most dangerous acts without foreseeing the consequences would mean another character flaw on her end. This Spartan-IV is bashfully arrogant and overconfident that fails to see the horrors of her character flaws. I'm kinda hoping these flaws are cleaned up in future games so that they wouldn't be targets for hate.

        Loading editor
    • 216.80.140.168 wrote:
      I would assume its hard to view a character with a smart-alleck personality just to prove how superior that character has become. That's a character flaw and trying to do the most dangerous acts without foreseeing the consequences would mean another character flaw on her end. This Spartan-IV is bashfully arrogant and overconfident that fails to see the horrors of her character flaws. I'm kinda hoping these flaws are cleaned up in future games so that they wouldn't be targets for hate.

      Very over-exaggerated Targets...

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    • Look guys, people are ALLOWED to not like someone. If they post the reasons why on the forum, its just to show their opinion. You're not going to change people's mind over the internet, and going through and arguing every point that the person makes won't help either. Just because you have a huge freakin' boner for Palmer  doesn't mean that everyone has to love her. Also to whoever said that a competitive nature is a military asset, it really isn't. Being competitive has no bearing on ability. It's not always a bad trait, don't get me wrong, it's just irrelavent to getting the job done. In fact in extreme cases it can be harmful. The former Soviet Union's competitive nature to compete with US military spending was on of the economic factors that led to their downfall. The desire to prove themselves to be the best to others can also prevent cooperation between units. And from a psychological standpoint it also suggests feelings of inadequacy.  In addition, whoever keeps trying to justify some of her actions by saying "she's just a lone wolf by nature", that is not a justification. Lone wolves are a bad thing, especially if they have to work with or lead a team, often putting the rest of the team at risk by not functioning as a unit. Anyone with actual military experience will tell you that teamwork, cooperation, communication, and planning are what wins fights. Also the statement earlier about the military welcoming people with bad attitudes was simply ignorant. If you're in the military and have a bad attitude you either get rid of it or they get rid of you. In fact when recruiting officers for the military, regardless of specialization they look for profesionalism and the ability to work well with people from all backgrounds (granted this is mostly out of a desire to cover their asses from any kind of discrination lawsuit or bad PR, but the principle remains the same). In all I came into this forum somewhat likeing Palmer, I mean she's kinda cute and voiced by Jennifer Freakin' Hale herself, but after reading the posts of a few of her fanboys my opinion has soured somewhat, but I'll reserve judgement untill we see more of her in the future games.



      Also Superman sucks and Batman is waaaayyyyy cooler. (Atleast in my slightly trollish and extremely off-topic opinion)

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    • 108.67.40.118 wrote:
      Look guys, people are ALLOWED to not like someone. If they post the reasons why on the forum, its just to show their opinion. You're not going to change people's mind over the internet, and going through and arguing every point that the person makes won't help either. Just because you have a huge freakin' boner for Palmer  doesn't mean that everyone has to love her.  



      So, we aren't allowed to have a debate on a forum? Even though that's one of its intended purposes.


      108.67.40.118 wrote:
      Also to whoever said that a competitive nature is a military asset, it really isn't. Being competitive has no bearing on ability. It's not always a bad trait, don't get me wrong, it's just irrelevant to getting the job done. In fact in extreme cases it can be harmful. The former Soviet Union's competitive nature to compete with US military spending was on of the economic factors that led to their downfall. The desire to prove themselves to be the best to others can also prevent cooperation between units. And from a psychological standpoint it also suggests feelings of inadequacy.


      You forgot to mention that the U.S was also competitive against the Soviet's and "won" that economic battle between countries during the Cold war.


      108.67.40.118 wrote:
      In addition, whoever keeps trying to justify some of her actions by saying "she's just a lone wolf by nature", that is not a justification. Lone wolves are a bad thing, especially if they have to work with or lead a team, often putting the rest of the team at risk by not functioning as a unit. Anyone with actual military experience will tell you that teamwork, cooperation, communication, and planning are what wins fights.

      You not considering that to be Justification is subjective. Lonewolfs aren't always a bad thing. Besides that, did i not say she learned from her experience with Jun?

      You're just taking this out of context.

      108.67.40.118 wrote:
      Also the statement earlier about the military welcoming people with bad attitudes was simply ignorant. If you're in the military and have a bad attitude you either get rid of it or they get rid of you. In fact when recruiting officers for the military, regardless of specialization they look for professionalism and the ability to work well with people from all backgrounds (granted this is mostly out of a desire to cover their asses from any kind of discrimination lawsuit or bad PR, but the principle remains the same).

      That isn't what i said at all. I said, and i quote, "you need a tough attitude" in the military. Which is true. Not a bad attitude.

      I find it ignorant that you skim through my posts without taking the time to understand what i'm saying.

      You responding to what i say, months later, with out taking the time to understand what i'm talking about in my posts, is the true definition of ignorant.

      108.67.40.118 wrote:
      In all I came into this forum somewhat likeing Palmer, I mean she's kinda cute and voiced by Jennifer Freakin' Hale herself, but after reading the posts of a few of her fanboys my opinion has soured somewhat, but I'll reserve judgement untill we see more of her in the future games.

      At least read what you reply to next time, before trying to engage in an argument that ended months ago.

      108.67.40.118 wrote:
      Also Superman sucks and Batman is waaaayyyyy cooler. (Atleast in my slightly trollish and extremely off-topic opinion)

      Meh, Superman for life. lol

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    • Your last post was May 17th, not exactly a month ago. In addition as a history major I can tell you that the US competitive spirit is NOT what won the cold war, It was our large economy, made on the back of our consumerist society. The US competive spirit is what led to the Domino Theory and got us involved in Vietnam, Korea, and numerous other small engagements. In addition, you obviously fail to see the difference between compettitive and over competitive. Your earlier posts claimed painted competitivism as the sole way to drive a person to success, but there are other healthier motivations out there, like a sense of duty, justiceand other factors. A competitive drive is inheirintly selfish, usually as the result of making a person fell good about themselves tom combat a sense of personal inadequacy or to prove their worth to others. In post 22 you said the military welcomed people with bad attitudes, that's what I was refering to, not the tough attitude comment. Believe me I actually read through all of your posts. All of your VERY numerous posts. From an actual military standpoint lone wolves ARE a bad thing, in fact much of basic military training revolves around removing attributes with that level of individualism and training recruits to function as a unit. Admitidly, the lone wolf character architype is a popular one for fiction, I was simply informing people that your views on lonewolves has no purpose in real life. In addition, realistically lonewolves tend to die, and without a team to carry on the mission, it would be a failure. And in reply to the debate comment, you are no longer debating, you are arguing, considering half of this forum post is you replying to almost every comment that dissagrees with yours suggests an inability to let things go, or let other people have an opinion. As you mentioned above, you claimed to have a competitive nature, but your vehemence with this  topic suggests an unhealthy level of overcompetitiveness or a fanatical devotion to a fictional character, both of which are unhealthy. Trust me on this, your life will become so much better if you spend less time arguing over insignifigant topics on the internet. I say this omly out of a desire to help you.

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    • 108.67.40.118 wrote:
      Your last post was May 17th, not exactly a month ago. In addition as a history major I can tell you that the US competitive spirit is NOT what won the cold war, It was our large economy, made on the back of our consumerist society. The US competive spirit is what led to the Domino Theory and got us involved in Vietnam, Korea, and numerous other small engagements. In addition, you obviously fail to see the difference between competitive and over competitive. Your earlier posts claimed painted competitivism as the sole way to drive a person to success, but there are other healthier motivations out there, like a sense of duty, justice and other factors. A competitive drive is inherently selfish, usually as the result of making a person fell good about themselves tom combat a sense of personal inadequacy or to prove their worth to others. 


      Considering you tried to attack my posts all the way back in March 2 and prior. Yes, Months ago. And i really don't feel like doing this.

      Yes, of course its not the only thing used to win battles, but it literally is the desire to succeed. Thats its definition. I don't ever recall saying that it was the sole thing when it comes to winning. If that's some sort of vibe you got from a post i made on the internet, then i'm sorry to see that.


      108.67.40.118 wrote:
      In post 22 you said the military welcomed people with bad attitudes, that's what I was referring to, not the tough attitude comment.

      In a post that was made almost 2 months ago. Right...


      108.67.40.118 wrote:
      Believe me I actually read through all of your posts. All of your VERY numerous posts. From an actual military standpoint lone wolves ARE a bad thing, in fact much of basic military training revolves around removing attributes with that level of individualism and training recruits to function as a unit. Admitidly, the lone wolf character architype is a popular one for fiction, I was simply informing people that your views on lonewolves has no purpose in real life. In addition, realistically lonewolves tend to die, and without a team to carry on the mission, it would be a failure. And in reply to the debate comment, you are no longer debating, you are arguing, considering half of this forum post is you replying to almost every comment that disagrees with yours suggests an inability to let things go, or let other people have an opinion.

      Of course it has no purpose in real life. I'm arguing about Halo lore.

      I have got to stop subscribing my email to topics so i don't have to see people like you try to revive things like this. Its really annoying.


      108.67.40.118 wrote:
      As you mentioned above, you claimed to have a competitive nature, but your vehemence with this  topic suggests an unhealthy level of over competitiveness or a fanatical devotion to a fictional character, both of which are unhealthy. Trust me on this, your life will become so much better if you spend less time arguing over insignificant topics on the internet. I say this only out of a desire to help you.

      And that is my queue to just stop replying to you so i can keep my sanity. Seriously, let this thread die. It was already on its way until you decided to bump it.

      If you feel compelled to reply to this and have last word go for it. Cause i really don't care.

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    • Why is it every time just after I say something mean about face palmer a comment notification leads me hear?

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    • Dude if you don't care then you shouldn't have bothered to comment. And I don't know what dictionary you use to get your definition of competitiion, but that definition is wrong. And I'm not trying to attack your views, I'm simply trying to say that in real life a person like Palmer would not be a commander. I understand if you were arguing Halo lore, but the topic of this thread is why do some people dislike Palmer, and her being a poor immition of what a real military commander is a valid reason. If you really don't feel like doing something then I urge you to follow your own advice, which coincidentally was the advice that I was trying to get across. In addition, unless you recant a statement, it being old doesn't invalidate it. In fact to be honest my first post wasn't meant to be an attack, I was simply informing people of a few of my opinions in relation to the discussions on this thread. If you are truely willing to stop replying to every opinion that differs from yours then I applaud you for taking a large step in learning to stop taking internet arguments so seriously, which was a large part of my original objective.

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    • I find Palmer to be a poor replacement for Johnson because her character development was poor


      Now, lets examine some other reasons I don't like her


      She is supposedly the leader of an Elite Spartan strain... But she's not a good leader, doesn't seem to care that much about her men and does stupid things that a professional elite soldier simply shouldn't do.


      She's got a massive ego. I'm all for soldiers having a big ego, hell look at the ODST's, those guys thought they were the shit, but Palmer has it way, way too big, to the point she looks down upon nearly everyone. I get the feeling she probably even looks down on her superiors and the chief.


      And... she's boring. She's just boring compared to Johnson, Johnson injected awesome, fun and some badass, Palmer injected... well, a poor Johnson knock off

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    • Lets look at the exteneded universe for a second guys...

      Spartans (II and III series) were kidnapped at a young age, and their memory is basically nothing but being Spartans. They are told they are the best so they can protect humanity, and that is drilled into them from age 5. They will treat other soldiers better because they know they're better so they can protect them. They are guardians of those weaker than them which leads to a different mindset and being more protective of the soldiers around them. 

      Spartan IV's are selected from the regular military, primarily the ODST. ODST training is insane and gives the mentality we're the best and we're going to kick ass. They are not told they are the protectors of humanity, they are told they are going to kill everything and be home in time for happy hour. This can start at age 18, give it a couple years of being in that environment, surrounded with people who believe the same thing, mix it with someone whose already highly competitive, and you get someone like Palmer. Then add in the Spartan training, that mentality of her being superior is matched by actual ability. Thus leading to her being gruff and rude to Marines nearby. Her insults to Chief? How is making that taller comment worse than what Major Silva (a regular ODST) said to him about calling him a failed experiment and a freak? 

      She's not a great character, but Jesus, saying she's somehow a bad character because she's not Johnson, has the ego of the TYPICAL ODST, and doesn't act like a regular military officer (she's not, in case you haven't noticed SPARTANS are unique) is just stupid.

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    • 1- Not all ODSTs are jerks. Seriously, why does everyone say that they're assholes?

      2- Major Antonio Silva, not Commander Antonio Silva.

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    • Commando Trooper wrote:
      1- Not all ODSTs are jerks. Seriously, why does everyone say that they're assholes?

      2- Major Antonio Silva, not Commander Antonio Silva.

      No one is saying they're assholes, it's just the fact that their training is all about making them feel more powerful, better, and superior. There is nothing about protecting others in it. It boosts their ego, which is what my point was. 

      And fixed the rank thing. Been awhile since I read the book.

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    • Commando Trooper wrote: Who said ODSTs do nothing to protect the innocent people?

      http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/091/4/e/halo__dogtag_origins_page_4_by_guyver89-d7ckcea.jpg

      Awwwww:) that can warm even a heart of stone. Who ever is the next person to say odsts are jerks after that will be used for experimental gun testing.

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    • I know. People need to stop thinking of ODSTs as scumbags.

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    • Theirs good and evil among us all, and among kig-yar I'm not even the greatest hero of all, the greatest hero of all hasn't posted since 2011 I believe the date was. A hero is not measured by how me they are, nor by how Spartan they, are, not by how odst they are, and especially not by how sara palmer they are. We need heroes, and this is what a real hero looks like. Humans think all kig-yar are scum bags? Their wrong! http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Kig That's what a hero looks like. http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/091/4/e/halo__dogtag_origins_page_4_by_guyver89-d7ckcea.jpg As dose that! And that's a hero! Thel_%60Vadam_Tranparent.png In halo we want heros, not sara palmers!

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    • Heroes never die. And they shall all be remembered in our hearts...

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    • I my self, often don't feel like a hero. I want to be a hero just like my sea faring ansisters. Weakening the enemy navy while strengthening my under dog allies who appose them. That's all I ever wanted.

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    • I don't feel like a hero too. Even though I survived more battles than Sgt. Johnson, he's still a bigger hero than me. 

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    • Commando Trooper wrote:
      Who said ODSTs do nothing to protect the innocent people?

      http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/091/4/e/halo__dogtag_origins_page_4_by_guyver89-d7ckcea.jpg

      Yeah, who did say that?. I'm saying, their training instills a mentality that is about kicking ass and home in time for drinks. That they're better than other branches. That they're braver, tougher, and scarier than anybody else. Which is why they are so abrasive. That doesn't mean they're not compassionate. It just means they're more egotistical.

      Then there's the cases where ODSTs do some pretty dick shit. Like the ones who live fired rifles, machine guns, LOTUS Anti-Tank mines, and a Pelican loaded to bear to get revenge on Master Chief for him killing an ODST in a sparring match, that was 4 on 1 and provoked by the ODST if memory serves correct (they were ordered to, but they tried to take revenge on MC, not the asshole who gave the order). Then we have Silva, who wanted to prove the Chief was just a failed project and got a lot of people killed because he didn't want to admit the Chief or Cortana was right about the Flood. 

      This was me explaining why Palmer is the way she is, not trying to say ODST are assholes. Please don't take it the wrong way again because it's rather annoying to argue when I agree the ODST are legitimately good guys.

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    • Is that all they are trained to do? just kill stuff???? What about first aid, second aid, 3rd aid, 4rth aid, 5th aid???? What about planet surface survival training? What about repairing stuff? What about rescuing hostages? What about chopping trees and stones to make while digging trenches and setting razor wire for emergency fortifications when the enemy is coming and theirs nowhere to run? Is that all they are trained to do, just kill? If that's the quality of their training, they sure won't last long on their own!

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    • ODST training is just kill stuff??? No. You're only getting your facts from Silva's battalion. Those are jerks. You haven't seen the other ODSTs, how they react. Just look at Halo 3 ODST's squad, or Cortez from The Babysitter. They're good guys.

      Please don't say that ODSTs are frat boys as a whole, if you're only counting with Silva's men.

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    • Go to Netflix and watch "Surviving the Cut" or "Inside Special Forces", or any number of other documentaries about SEALs, Delta, Marines, etc.    That's what ODSTs are.   They're Special Operations Forces.  

      Most of them are good guys. Some of them are dicks.  They almost all have pretty alpha personalities:  Strong, kind of in-your-face, not hesistant about many things.  That's the sort of person that makes it through a Special-Forces selection program, regardless of what branch you're talking about. 

      Most of them are not nice people.   They might be good people, but they're not nice.   Shit-talking just kind of goes with the territory if you're talking about combat-arms military forces.   Alot of them *are* assholes.  

      It doesn't matter.   As long as they accomplish their mission and achieve victory, they can be disrespectful assholes.   Their job is not to win popularity contests. 

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    • I still can't figure out what went "Snap" in that image.

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    • Commando Trooper wrote:
      ODST training is just kill stuff??? No. You're only getting your facts from Silva's battalion. Those are jerks. You haven't seen the other ODSTs, how they react. Just look at Halo 3 ODST's squad, or Cortez from The Babysitter. They're good guys.

      Please don't say that ODSTs are frat boys as a whole, if you're only counting with Silva's men.


      Both you and the other individual are putting words in my mouth. Never did I say they were trained to "just kill stuff". I said their training instills a different mentality. It inspires confidence. It inspires bravado. It inspires an EGO. They are trained to be the BEST, and there is nothing about being the PROTECTORS. They are trained to hit hard, fast, and without mercy. Ever read Contact: Harvest? SSGT Byrne is the perfect case. He's not being brutal because that's who he is, he's brutal because THAT is how they're trained to treat the enemy. They are shock troops mean to hit the enemy hard enough that subsequent forces (Regular Marines) can break through with much less resistance. 

      Do you at all understand the difference between "just kill stuff" and a more brutal approach to training? Oh and never called them frat boys. You're insulting them more than I have by being an idiot and putting words in my mouth. Let me explain the get home in time for happy hour part, because clearly, it sailed over your head. It's a military thing as a whole. There are REAL soldiers out there who think "Let's kick some ass and be home in time for drinks" before a mission. Imagine that, but being trained to be that good and constantly told they're good. It's a boost to their ego. 

      I like the ODST. I've played ODST and I really liked the characters. I've also read the short story Dirt where Gage Ygevenny recounts his whole experience in the military. He was a great guy. That doesn't change the fact that their training is more about kicking ass than it is about protecting others. This is NOT to say they're not cross trained on other things. It just means that at the end of the day, when it comes time to drop down to the battlefield in metal coffins that can kill you from heat alone, they do it because they believe in every fiber of their being, they are the best. They are going to kick ass and take names. That they are invincible and somehow better than other human beings. All thanks to their training.

      THAT is what I've been saying this entire time. Anything after this point just shows you're not literate and are only arguing being you think the ODST shit rainbows, unicorns, and sunshine while never being able to do anything bad. They're ODST, they're human, and they have flaws. 


      Thank you Gabriel for actually understanding what is being said.

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    • Unnamed Field Marshall wrote:
      I still can't figure out what went "Snap" in that image.

      His dogtags.

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    • Lawadnorder wrote:


      Both you and the other individual are putting words in my mouth. Never did I say they were trained to "just kill stuff". I said their training instills a different mentality. It inspires confidence. It inspires bravado. It inspires an EGO. They are trained to be the BEST, and there is nothing about being the PROTECTORS. They are trained to hit hard, fast, and without mercy. Ever read Contact: Harvest? SSGT Byrne is the perfect case. He's not being brutal because that's who he is, he's brutal because THAT is how they're trained to treat the enemy. They are shock troops mean to hit the enemy hard enough that subsequent forces (Regular Marines) can break through with much less resistance. 

      Do you at all understand the difference between "just kill stuff" and a more brutal approach to training? Oh and never called them frat boys. You're insulting them more than I have by being an idiot and putting words in my mouth. Let me explain the get home in time for happy hour part, because clearly, it sailed over your head. It's a military thing as a whole. There are REAL soldiers out there who think "Let's kick some ass and be home in time for drinks" before a mission. Imagine that, but being trained to be that good and constantly told they're good. It's a boost to their ego. 

      I like the ODST. I've played ODST and I really liked the characters. I've also read the short story Dirt where Gage Ygevenny recounts his whole experience in the military. He was a great guy. That doesn't change the fact that their training is more about kicking ass than it is about protecting others. This is NOT to say they're not cross trained on other things. It just means that at the end of the day, when it comes time to drop down to the battlefield in metal coffins that can kill you from heat alone, they do it because they believe in every fiber of their being, they are the best. They are going to kick ass and take names. That they are invincible and somehow better than other human beings. All thanks to their training.

      THAT is what I've been saying this entire time. Anything after this point just shows you're not literate and are only arguing being you think the ODST shit rainbows, unicorns, and sunshine while never being able to do anything bad. They're ODST, they're human, and they have flaws. 


      Thank you Gabriel for actually understanding what is being said.

      When, in all of my comments, did I say that ODSTs do nothing wrong??

      When did I say that they're not human??

      Yes. I admit, some ODSTs think they're better than others. But my point is that their training involves tactics and all that stuff, not just "Oh, we're invincible and we're going home". And their training doesn't teach them that they're the protectors of humanity? Of course that's not their fault, that's whoever teach them's fault. No, ODSTs are much more than that.

      And about me and STARS being idiots and putting words in your mouth:

      1 - STARS didn't even put a single insult in your mouth;

      2 - I said that you called them frat boys because I thought you were the same guy who called them that in another thread.

      Stop being mad and trying to say that I'm a bad guy just because I'm defending my favourite thing in Halo. I'm just tired of people using Palmer as a way to insult ODSTs.

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    • Now you are the one who is putting words in my mouth, by saying "You think the ODST shit rainbows, unicorns, and sunshine". Who's the one putting words in other people's mouth now??? Now that was truly an idiot move.

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    • Commando Trooper wrote:
      Lawadnorder wrote:


      Both you and the other individual are putting words in my mouth. Never did I say they were trained to "just kill stuff". I said their training instills a different mentality. It inspires confidence. It inspires bravado. It inspires an EGO. They are trained to be the BEST, and there is nothing about being the PROTECTORS. They are trained to hit hard, fast, and without mercy. Ever read Contact: Harvest? SSGT Byrne is the perfect case. He's not being brutal because that's who he is, he's brutal because THAT is how they're trained to treat the enemy. They are shock troops mean to hit the enemy hard enough that subsequent forces (Regular Marines) can break through with much less resistance. 

      Do you at all understand the difference between "just kill stuff" and a more brutal approach to training? Oh and never called them frat boys. You're insulting them more than I have by being an idiot and putting words in my mouth. Let me explain the get home in time for happy hour part, because clearly, it sailed over your head. It's a military thing as a whole. There are REAL soldiers out there who think "Let's kick some ass and be home in time for drinks" before a mission. Imagine that, but being trained to be that good and constantly told they're good. It's a boost to their ego. 

      I like the ODST. I've played ODST and I really liked the characters. I've also read the short story Dirt where Gage Ygevenny recounts his whole experience in the military. He was a great guy. That doesn't change the fact that their training is more about kicking ass than it is about protecting others. This is NOT to say they're not cross trained on other things. It just means that at the end of the day, when it comes time to drop down to the battlefield in metal coffins that can kill you from heat alone, they do it because they believe in every fiber of their being, they are the best. They are going to kick ass and take names. That they are invincible and somehow better than other human beings. All thanks to their training.

      THAT is what I've been saying this entire time. Anything after this point just shows you're not literate and are only arguing being you think the ODST shit rainbows, unicorns, and sunshine while never being able to do anything bad. They're ODST, they're human, and they have flaws. 


      Thank you Gabriel for actually understanding what is being said.

      When, in all of my comments, did I say that ODSTs do nothing wrong??

      When did I say that they're not human??

      Yes. I admit, some ODSTs think they're better than others. But my point is that their training involves tactics and all that stuff, not just "Oh, we're invincible and we're going home". And their training doesn't teach them that they're the protectors of humanity? Of course that's not their fault, that's whoever teach them's fault. No, ODSTs are much more than that.

      And about me and STARS being idiots and putting words in your mouth:

      1 - STARS didn't even put a single insult in your mouth;

      2 - I said that you called them frat boys because I thought you were the same guy who called them that in another thread.

      Stop being mad and trying to say that I'm a bad guy just because I'm defending my favourite thing in Halo. I'm just tired of people using Palmer as a way to insult ODSTs.


      1. You're defending them in such a way that anyone can tell they're you're favorite and that no one can insult them. You're arguments have always been "Yeah but..." (argument style, not your actual arguments) without realizing when you say "but" it completely disqualifies what you just said. 

      2. You put them on such a pedestal that you need to be reminded of the fact they're human because they're so high in your regard and you always disqualify anything bad said about them with something they did right.

      3. No shit. Everyone knows that. Any special forces soldier is trained in more than just how to kill things and think they're invincible. Did you know though, that a Navy SEAL doesn't have the same mentality as a Green Beret? Or that a Green Beret has a different priority set than a Force Recon Sniper team? That's what I was alluding to. Yes, they know tactics, they know how to fix a minor wound, and they know all those other good things. Their training leads to a much different thought process and set of priorities. 

      4. I called you idiots because you're arguing about the ODST being good when I have CONSTANTLY said that they are, but you two have deliberately disagreed with me because I don't agree that ODST's are the best thing since oxygen. I get it, they're your favorite. That doesn't mean you have to get up on everyone's shit because they disagree with a MINOR detail like them not being somehow superior to everyone.

      4a) Actually, he was the one who brought up their training and how it's "more than just kill people" and then you also jumped on the band wagon. According to you two, that's an insult because you have to disqualify it (remember how you always disqualify things that put the ODST in a negative light?). He did put the words in my mouth.

      4b) So instead of actually using your head, you just threw in another insult? That I MIGHT have said because another person disagree with you on the same topic? I'll address the full extent of this in the 5th addressment.

      5. I'm not mad. I'm frustrated that I am arguing this with you because you can't seem to grasp that I agree with you despite the fact I don't think the ODST are some force of ubermensch who can do nothing wrong. I never said you were a bad guy either (again, words in my mouth). You feel persecuted because your favorite group in the game isn't something universally loved, and from that anyone can infer that you believe, overall, they are infallible. I get that they're your favorite, but you can't just say ODST are great and then discount former ODST because they don't fit your mental picture of them. Loving something (or somebody) means loving them DESPITE the bad. I know my fiance has a bad qualities. I admit them (not to her face mind you because I'm not suicidal) and love her despite them. I get that you love them (non-romantic way, obviously fiance may have been a bit of a bad comparison), but you can't just love the good and block out the bad. That'll follow you into relationships and that isn't a good thing to have.

      6. Again, this is all about how you present your arguments. Disqualifying everything bad and never actually acknowledging it. You completely dismiss Silva and his platoon but forget that all the men under him were great guys. Silva was a great guy if you look at him as a whole. The reason I said you believe they "shit rainbows, unicorns, and sunshine" is because when faced with defending an ODST who can be seen in a bad light, you dismiss them and bring up "But this ODST did this (insert good thing)". You don't actually acknowledge or defend them. You just leave them out to dry. That was what I inferred. 

      7) Now I understand you're going to try and flip the script on me and say that you inferred something or other. You couldn't have because in every one of my posts I've said I like the ODST in some way. Can we please stop arguing now or am I going to have to do this again?

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    • Sorry was I mentioned? my attention span is to small to handle much big reading posts.

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    • Lawadnorder wrote:

      7) Now I understand you're going to try and flip the script on me and say that you inferred something or other. You couldn't have because in every one of my posts I've said I like the ODST in some way. Can we please stop arguing now or am I going to have to do this again?

      No, I'm not going to continue this fight because I'm not stupid (wich you may think I am) and because I don't like to be arguing with another person.

      Also, in the other thread, I never disagreed with the other user, as you've stated in your comment.

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    • Lawadnorder wrote:

      4. I called you idiots because you're arguing about the ODST being good when I have CONSTANTLY said that they are, but you two have deliberately disagreed with me because I don't agree that ODST's are the best thing since oxygen. I get it, they're your favorite. That doesn't mean you have to get up on everyone's shit because they disagree with a MINOR detail like them not being somehow superior to everyone.


      Stop saying "you idiots" and "you two" as if we're the same person.   We're not.   I've said pretty different things that he has.  You're also putting alot of words in my mouth that I never said, nor ever thought.  

      Going on a long, defensive rant doesn't exactly make you look like the voice of reason here, by the way.  

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    • Lawadnorder wrote:

      7) Now I understand you're going to try and flip the script on me and say that you inferred something or other. You couldn't have because in every one of my posts I've said I like the ODST in some way. Can we please stop arguing now or am I going to have to do this again?

      If this guy is as unforsaking as he claims to be, he needs do stop taking an opinion as an attack.

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    • Hope my intervention isn't needed, I don't have the energy to figure out whats going on. But this human and this sanghili are my friends, please be nice to them ok? :) It use to be if some one tried to offend me I'd just use my charm, but I been losing medication and now everything I say just sounds mean.

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    • Unnamed Field Marshall wrote:
      Lawadnorder wrote:

      7) Now I understand you're going to try and flip the script on me and say that you inferred something or other. You couldn't have because in every one of my posts I've said I like the ODST in some way. Can we please stop arguing now or am I going to have to do this again?

      If this guy is as unforsaking as he claims to be, he needs do stop taking an opinion as an attack.


      I haven't taken their opinons as attacks. I've been explaining myself to two people who cannot seem to understand that I'm not one of the ODST's fanboys and will say negative things about them if it's factual or can proven by a logical train of thought.

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    • Lawadnorder wrote:

      I haven't taken their opinons as attacks. I've been explaining myself to two people who cannot seem to understand that I'm not one of the ODST's fanboys and will say negative things about them if it's factual or can proven by a logical train of thought.

      No, you haven't been.  I can't speak for the other person, but "cannot seem to understand" definitely doesn't apply to me, nor am I a "fanboy" of anything discussed in this thread.  

      What you've been doing is having an imaginary debate with straw-man versions of the other people in this thread, and responding to your exxagerated mental picture of what we're saying, instead of what we have actually said.  

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    • Lawadnorder wrote:

      I haven't taken their opinons as attacks. I've been explaining myself to two people who cannot seem to understand that I'm not one of the ODST's fanboys and will say negative things about them if it's factual or can proven by a logical train of thought.

      Fair enough, you can keep YOUR opinion on them, and I can keep mine. If I think of them in the way that I think, then let it be. 

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    • Hey it could be worse, we could have spend all this time talking about sara palmer ;)

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    • Yeah, definitely.

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    • I feel as if this thread is starting to cling to life past it's expiration date

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    • Yep, its not got much fermentation left to go before its ready to drink.

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    • Unnamed Field Marshall wrote:
      I feel as if this thread is starting to cling to life past it's expiration date

      Hey, I've seen worse. I've seen a 1 year old thread getting revived.

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    • I was there for it, Commando Trooper. I witnessed the resurrection. 

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    • Hey lets revive the first thread ever made just for fun. :)

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    • Sounds like an interesting idea.

      http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:293081 There. That's the oldest I could find.

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    • uuuhhhh, I ttake it back.

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    • would you be happy if the good traits of palmer wouldnt change or improve a bit and the bad gradually change? Or make her fight 6 hunters on her own with no protection like armor and shields and tell her to enjoy it like she does to us in spartan ops every single time?

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    • GodzillaMaster wrote:
      I hate her not only for how much of a bitch she is, but also how hypocritical she is. All. The. Time.

      Ignoring the whole "orders are orders" BS she said late in Spartan Ops; she hates scientists because of a belief that anyone with an education views themselves as being superior to others, yet Palmer is very quick to point out how superior she and the other Spartan IVs are to other military branches.

      Palmer is my favorite so stop being mean 343 probably just wanted a woman who stands up for herself who didn't die in the first game you saw her. Palmer will probably live through Halo 5 :guardians but I dunno

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    • It may just be my memory but I only remember 1, 2, 3, 4, yah, 4, 5 wemen dying in all of halo. And only 1 of them I forgotten the name of.

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    • Well hey.

      343 Industries needed  another heroine because Miranda is dead,and I'm still waiting for that the Spartan Strike Protogonist is CONFIRMED to be a female because I got a feeling that the Protogonist is a female.

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    • Ask her how she managed to time travel to nearly 30 years before their where any Spartan 4's just to fight a battle man kind had already lost but led to the battle they won at the ark.

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    • Sarah Palmer is a bitch and i want a elite storm to kill her because he doesn't deserve to die by a warrior or commander.

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    • Hey!!! Sarah is just replacing Miranda.

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    • Sarah face palmer

      please respect palmer.

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    • Problem for Palmer:

      1. Too snarky

      2. Too Arrogant

      3. Too Overconfident

      4. Harmed Halsey (even though Lasky was completely against the idea)

      5. No respect for others (outside her own Fireteam and Lasky)

      6. Lacks an interesting character personality

      7. And being waaaay too perfect for being a flawless Spartan character, rather than try to be another Escapist Character like Sgt. Johnson

      Hopefully all these problematic issues would be fixed in H5G.

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    • I want her to die in halo 5

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    • 108.219.236.168 wrote:
      GodzillaMaster wrote:
      I hate her not only for how much of a bitch she is, but also how hypocritical she is. All. The. Time.

      Ignoring the whole "orders are orders" BS she said late in Spartan Ops; she hates scientists because of a belief that anyone with an education views themselves as being superior to others, yet Palmer is very quick to point out how superior she and the other Spartan IVs are to other military branches.

      Dude, she's a spartan. she's very superior to marines AND scientists.

      Those scientists may well be the reason that the Spartan IV program succeeded in the first place. They may be the ones who developed the technology that the UNSC needed to defeat the Covenant. They deserve a lot more respect than she gives them.

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    • No, they just need to make a super solder programed to hunt Spartan 4's and get their revenge. Because that would be so much cooler.

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    • im no palmer fan, but I hate Locke more.

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    • At least H5G would try to make both Palmer and Locke more interesting or the entire fanbase is screwed.

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    • 216.80.140.168 wrote:
      At least H5G would try to make both Palmer and Locke more interesting or the entire fanbase is screwed.

      New Blood already did a Good job with that. Turns out She knew Buck... And Fans are now thinking she got the gghead thing from him. Makes sense since Buck did say it first in canon.

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    • 216.80.140.168 wrote: At least H5G would try to make both Palmer and Locke more interesting or the entire fanbase is screwed.


      I will still hate Locke. My he be stabbed with twenty energy swords... Then fed to feral unggoy.

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    • Remember guy there're her flaws all characters have them. We will soon see Chief's. As for the Halsey thing, who does like Halsey. In fact let's get to people who we should not like, such as Del Rio, or Halsey. (Not Locke, we know next to nothing about him)

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    • The hell with Locke and Palmer is a twat. I actually respect Halsey because she created the SPARTAN-IIs. Most people would think of it as unethical, but I think it's practical. Doing what must be done. 


      And ODST FTW.

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    • 32.212.237.240 wrote: The hell with Locke and Palmer is a twat. I actually respect Halsey because she created the SPARTAN-IIs. Most people would think of it as unethical, but I think it's practical. Doing what must be done. 


      And ODST FTW.

      tell it like it is.

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    • 32.212.237.240 wrote: The hell with Locke and Palmer is a twat. I actually respect Halsey because she created the SPARTAN-IIs. Most people would think of it as unethical, but I think it's practical. Doing what must be done. 


      And ODST FTW.

      But Palmer was an ODST.

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    • I think I know why Palmer feels like a bitch in Spartan OPs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uipfoIPHtn0 0:58 - 1:13

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    • ..... I don't get it.

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    • It is much less scientific than character development, and it has nothing to do with people preferring Bungie over 343i. It is because of her attitude towards Halsey. Bungie brilliantly developed Halsey's character to be one feeling moral remorse over how the Spartan II program was built, but still feeling like she did what needed to be done. 343 has clearly decided to make her a "bad guy" as is overwhelmingly evidenced by her joining the Covenant Remnant at the end of Spartan Ops. Personally, I like 343i and I think Halo 4 was a great game. But it is extremely unfortunate what they have done to Halsey's character. Morally bankrupt, acting like she's above the rules? Sure. But a traitor to the UNSC? BS in my opinion.

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    • Anyone can be scientific, just act apon your curiosity, defy those who say don't qeastion the modern list of facts and miths and try them with logic and evadince to see if they are true, boom, scientific.

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    • Palmer is a bit of a hoe. Her one redeeming feature is being voiced by FemShep, which brings to mind a far superior character who could whoop her ass.

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    • Jon Archer wrote: Remember guy there're her flaws all characters have them. We will soon see Chief's. As for the Halsey thing, who does like Halsey. In fact let's get to people who we should not like, such as Del Rio, or Halsey. (Not Locke, we know next to nothing about him)

      I reiterate it, oh and FemShep? More like Bastila Shan.

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    • Hopefully, H5G will get around of developing not just Palmer's character but pretty much all female Spartan characters, make things a bit more interesting.

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    • 73.206.241.73 wrote:
      Hopefully, H5G will get around of developing not just Palmer's character but pretty much all female Spartan characters, make things a bit more interesting.


      To bad Naomi wont be there

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    • Actually, Palmer is my favorite spartan in halo! I don't know why everyone hates her! Also, if people hate her because she doesn't do enough fighting, well they're wrong, they obviosily haven't played Halo: Spartan Assault. 

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    • Don't worry, it has nothing to do with how much fighting she does, its because her character falls somewhere around the lines of jerk asshole bitch and branch-prejudice.

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    • Btw lol Red is going to be so pissed off when he sees this thread revived.

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    • One of these days I'll shank someone over reviving these threads

      Everyone hates Palmer because

      1. Her character has hardly any personality at all. And what little personality there is, is abominable.

      2. She's supposed to fill the role Johnson used to fill, and fails miserably at it. Comments like "I thought you'd be taller" three seconds after meeting John aren't acceptable from her. Johnson earned the right to say such things. She hasn't.

      3. She's an S-IV. S-IVs are cancer.

      4. 343i tries to make her a major character while she should really just be a minor character that appears a single time for five seconds.

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    • I totally agree, she barely has any character at all. She's just... a soldier... following orders. There are more hateful characters out there that have a personality. And in the game its do this and do that with her, I hate it.

      Though I don't mind Spartan IVs, its usually the characters that are crap. Eg PALMER.

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    • This thread died in march, rather then reviving it I would advice making a new one instead.

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    • Meh... It was here so I just did it.

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    • Hahahaha, it was pure ecstasy ending up in this thread from Google and then see Kal825B blindly trying to be a contrarian as much as possible. Then Kal finally shut up and left. Thank goodness. Even reading a 2 year old post from an edgelord trying to debate and argue like a little kid, is cathartic to see it finally end.

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    • Google is behind every old thread revive confirmed. And they said I was just a conspiracy nut. To bad drowning in the flood isn't enough to teach a person to get on the ark.

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    • Stop this

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    • I think we have officially ran out of threads so everyone is going back to the old ones...

      But anyways Palmer has the same voice actor has Femshep, so 343 had the idea of adding in Renegade Femshep to halo and it backfired 

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    • ReDquinox wrote: Stop this

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    • A FANDOM user
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